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Angels Sign Dominican Righthander Lianmy Galan


John Smith

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I'd like to be the first to question the validity of his age, not because I think he is older, but because we are all suppose to be hesitant to believe people from other places.

 

 

Do you have Netflix?  If you do, I highly recommend you watch Pelotero, a tremendous look at the Dominican and some of the stuff those guys go through in order to just get signed....   It profiles two guys, one of them a guy everyone here will know soon in Sano.

 

Movie was produced by Bobby Valentine of all people.

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Wow, the Angels signed the #27 best international player available from July.  It may be a step in the right direction and add to that Lianmy Galan but it sure isn't going to move the Angels farm system up in the MLB rankings very soon.  The Angels always seem to be in the bottom third when it comes to prospects, minor leagers, etc.

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Do you have Netflix? If you do, I highly recommend you watch Pelotero, a tremendous look at the Dominican and some of the stuff those guys go through in order to just get signed.... It profiles two guys, one of them a guy everyone here will know soon in Sano.

Movie was produced by Bobby Valentine of all people.

I'll check it out IP. I was basically poking fun at all of the guys that think Albert is "Obviously" older than he claims, because other people from that area have lied about their age.

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Wow, the Angels signed the #27 best international player available from July.  It may be a step in the right direction and add to that Lianmy Galan but it sure isn't going to move the Angels farm system up in the MLB rankings very soon.  The Angels always seem to be in the bottom third when it comes to prospects, minor leagers, etc.

 

And yet they have graduated 75 players drafted by the team into MLB between 1996 and 2013 -- 9th best in MLB and just outside of the top 5.  

 

Prospect rankings are great to brag about but somewhat meaningless.  Currently the Twins and the Astros farm systems are highly thought of, and yet during that same span they rank 28th and 30th when it comes to putting guys in MLB.  The Mariners are often listed among teams with historically strong farm systems -- yet they rank 27th.  The system lacks guys who turn heads, but it's got guys who will likely be productive MLB players.  Don't forget it was guys like Kotchman, Mathis, D-Mac, and Wood that got the Angels highly ranked by BBA but when the dust settled it was Morales, Napoli, and Aybar that went on to become strong MLB players.

 

It would be nice to have flashy prospects, but I'd settle for a few more Kole Calhouns.

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I'll check it out IP. I was basically poking fun at all of the guys that think Albert is "Obviously" older than he claims, because other people from that area have lied about their age.

 

Oh, I didn't think you meant anything by your post..  But as a baseball fan I figured you and others might want to catch a movie that does an amazing job of pointing out some of what happens down there.

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The funny thing is, while a guy like Buxton is legit, I could easily see guys like Miguel Sano failing at the big league level (see Dallas McPherson). Having a highly touted and ranked farm system is great, but I'd be willing to bet if you took the Twins top 20 and the Angels top 20 and looked at them in 5 years the amount of MLB players from each system will not be drastically different.

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I don't care about a history of 1996 through 2013 except for the fact that the Angels last real international signing was Kendrys Morales 7 or 8 years ago.  I would like to see a team that is committed to a major move toward a top minor league system and much better prospects.  I would like to see two top signings in the international top 10 each year to show someone gets that the cupboard is now bare.  The Rangers seem to find these international players, sign them and they become stars.  So do the Dodgers.  But the Angels are content with signing #27.  When is this crap going to end?

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I don't care about a history of 1996 through 2013 except for the fact that the Angels last real international signing was Kendrys Morales 7 or 8 years ago.  I would like to see a team that is committed to a major move toward a top minor league system and much better prospects.  I would like to see two top signings in the international top 10 each year to show someone gets that the cupboard is now bare.  The Rangers seem to find these international players, sign them and they become stars.  So do the Dodgers.  But the Angels are content with signing #27.  When is this crap going to end?

 

It isn't about simply throwing money around or saying "I want this player." You have to develop a relationship with trainers, families, players, etc in these countries to even have a chance to sign them.  It's about building a community and making the kids feel comfortable with your organization.

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I don't care about a history of 1996 through 2013 except for the fact that the Angels last real international signing was Kendrys Morales 7 or 8 years ago.  I would like to see a team that is committed to a major move toward a top minor league system and much better prospects.  I would like to see two top signings in the international top 10 each year to show someone gets that the cupboard is now bare.  The Rangers seem to find these international players, sign them and they become stars.  So do the Dodgers.  But the Angels are content with signing #27.  When is this crap going to end?

 

Just out of curiousity -- who are these International players signed by the Rangers that became stars?  Does hype qualify as stardom? 

 

Elvis Adrus?  Nope..  Neftali Perez and Andrus were signed by the Braves and obtained via trade for Texiera.   Ogando?  Nope...  Signed by the A's in 2002 and taken from them in the Rule V draft.  The closest that they have come to signing a guy that's become a star in recent years is Martin Perez who signed in 2007.....  the same year the Angels signed Alexi Amarista who plays for the Padres and Jean Segura who is currently playing SS for the Brewers. To date Martin had made less of a footprint in MLB than Miguel Gonzalez, who was signed by the Angels in 2005 out of some rec leaue and owns a career ERA+ of 118 for the Baltimore Orioles.  BTW, Alex Torres and his 224 ERA+ last year for TB was signed by Anaheim in 2005.

 

Leonis Martin is a recent big name and somewhat hyped player who has yet to post even league average numbers.  Jurickson Pfrofar is highly touted and much hyped but he too is nowhere near a star yet..  Yu Darvish is a legit star -- but he as much a product of their farm system and "scouting" as Ichiro was the Mariners farm system.  

 

Doesn't seem like it but in terms of real production Vs. hype, the Angels have done better than people realize.  Like you I'd like to see the farm rebuilt and a greater effort be made internationally, but despite the bad press the Angels have have done a pretty good job of graduating prospects.  What they have failed at miserably is holding on to their guys.  When you look at the Angels payroll issues and farm system -- it's pretty clear the biggest problem has been the WIN NOW mentality.

Edited by Inside Pitch
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I again see no reason to go into some long history laden exercise in who was signed and became productive years ago but were traded away or are no longer of any worth.  All of that no longer matters.  I am making a point but not trying to be confrontational.

 

Yu Darvish is the Rangers star that the Angels can only wish they had.  He is a #1 pitcher and will remain so for years to come.  All he cost was money and good scouting.  This is the same kind of money (with of course a draft pick attached) that the Angels normally throw at past their prime former stars who get to L.A. and are no longer productive.  Leonis Martin and Jurickson Profar are young Rangers starters who are on their way and will be productive for Texas for years to come.    Plus Martin Perez and whoever is in their system from international signings two or more years ago, last year, and this year, etc.  The point is Texas has been investing for many years in these types of prospects who are and will continue to pay big dividends.

 

The Angels are trying to compete with the Rangers who are well out-of-the-gate and far down the track in these matters.  It would appear that the Angels are still trying to make up their minds of whether to step onto the track.  Who do the Angels have on the major league roster from international signings?  Anyone remotely productive?  Is there anyone from the international market signed by the Angels in the minors worth a damn right now?

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Tanaka, if the salary was realistic.

7 years/$175 million (including posting fee) is ridiculous for someone whose only experience facing MLB hitters came during the WBC.

Part of the money saved there can be applied towards Trout long term, and trying to sign say Masterson after 2014.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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I again see no reason to go into some long history laden exercise in who was signed and became productive years ago but were traded away or are no longer of any worth.  All of that no longer matters.  I am making a point but not trying to be confrontational.

 

Yu Darvish is the Rangers star that the Angels can only wish they had.  He is a #1 pitcher and will remain so for years to come.  All he cost was money and good scouting.  This is the same kind of money (with of course a draft pick attached) that the Angels normally throw at past their prime former stars who get to L.A. and are no longer productive.  Leonis Martin and Jurickson Profar are young Rangers starters who are on their way and will be productive for Texas for years to come.    Plus Martin Perez and whoever is in their system from international signings two or more years ago, last year, and this year, etc.  The point is Texas has been investing for many years in these types of prospects who are and will continue to pay big dividends.

 

The Angels are trying to compete with the Rangers who are well out-of-the-gate and far down the track in these matters.  It would appear that the Angels are still trying to make up their minds of whether to step onto the track.  Who do the Angels have on the major league roster from international signings?  Anyone remotely productive?  Is there anyone from the international market signed by the Angels in the minors worth a damn right now?

 

I'm not trying to be confrontational either -- but you made certain claims, I simply wanted you to point out who these current "stars" were that you were faulting the Angels for not signing because as I looked at their roster I couldn't find any of them --- Seems you can't either..  No ill will intended.

 

I seriously doubt the Angels will be a second division team for ten years like the Rangers were from 1999 through 2010 as they went about rebuilding their farm and hoarding talent by selling off guys like Tex.  I doubt the farm system will be ranked in the bottom third of MLB for the next 5 years.  I doubt you'll see teams being able to sign two of the top ten international players on a yearly basis as you would have them do without having a relationship with them prior to turning 16 and being eligible to sign.  The new CBA capped how much teams can spend on international players.  

 

Props to the Rangers for having spent heavily before the changes took effect because if they continue to play well they will be limited in how much they can spend internationally.

 

Edited by Inside Pitch
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As to my reference to "stars", I meant how simple it was for the Rangers to acquire Yu Darvish, the Dodgers to acquire Yasiel Puig and the A's to get Yoenis Cespedes.  Young stars who will be good for a number of years.  The Angels have to somehow come up with a number of first round draft picks, actually make one a good pick (Mike Trout) and then develop him over a number of years in the minors.  After all that, there is nothing left to surround him with but aging past their prime former stars and whatever the Angels can find available from other teams. The Angels "competition" just go out and get their young stars with money and good scouting.  So how are the Angels ever going to get ahead of these other teams?

 

I am going to show my age but I remember being an avid Rams fan in the 80's when the San Francisco 49er's beat the Rams year after year.  The 49er's seemed to make a trade every year so when the draft came up they had two first round picks when the Rams had one.  The 49er's went out and signed two major free agents every year when the Rams sometimes signed one.  The Rams tried year after year to rebuild while the 49er's continually reloaded.  It was not surprising that the 49er's were playing for championships while the Rams were trying to achieve respectability.  It came from different goals and management priorities.  The 49er's excellence was planned while the Rams lack of excellence year after year seemed to be business as usual.

Edited by avejoe1
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As to my reference to "stars", I meant how simple it was for the Rangers to acquire Yu Darvish, the Dodgers to acquire Yasiel Puig and the A's to get Yoenis Cespedes.  Young stars who will be good for a number of years.  The Angels have to somehow come up with a number of first round draft picks, actually make one a good pick (Mike Trout) and then develop him over a number of years in the minors.  After all that, there is nothing left to surround him with but aging past their prime former stars and whatever the Angels can find available from other teams. The Angels "competition" just go out and get their young stars with money and good scouting.  So how are the Angels ever going to get ahead of these other teams?

 

 

 

 

 

You're absolutely right.  The Angels have never shown themselves capable of signing international players -- not one.  They haven't proven they can draft and develop players on a consistent basis -- not ever.   The only thing that matters is that they didn't sign international FA's like Darvish, Puig, or Cespedes in any of the last three years because those are the ONLY three years that have mattered and ever will.  They are just in over their heads and their history of success doing all those things should just be ignored.

 

Am I doing it right?

 

I'd take the time to point out how poorly your Rams/9ers analogy compares to the Angels/Rangers situation but I find it hard to believe anyone really needs to be reminded the Rangers recent run was built upon them being a complete non factor for an entire decade while the Angels essentially dominated the division.

Edited by Inside Pitch
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You mean the Angels "dominated" as in past tense from FOUR YEAR AGO PLUS?  Who cares about four or five years ago?  I am talking about how these other teams bring up or acquire four and five decent to good players a year while the Angels are bringing up or acquiring two, sometimes three plus a bunch of fillers.  When there is a need during the year, they pull from their minors while the Angels look for trades and to the waiver wire (see 2013 bullpen).  You do that year after year and it is no mystery why the Rangers and A's and Dodgers are playing for their respective division championships and the Angels are left to look up for how long now?  Oh, yeah for the past four years.

 

And who are the Angels bringing up from the minors this year, whether drafted or signed internationally?  Anyone?  Who is in the pipe to be brought up next year when the openings inevitably come?  Anyone?  My point is a team cannot get better simply by signing major league free agents and making trades and giving away draft picks.  It is swimming against the tide ...

Edited by avejoe1
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You mean the Angels "dominated" as in past tense from FOUR YEAR AGO PLUS?  Who cares about four or five years ago?  I am talking about how these other teams bring up or acquire four and five decent to good players a year while the Angels are bringing up or acquiring two, sometimes three plus a bunch of fillersWhen there is a need during the year, they pull from their minors while the Angels look for trades and to the waiver wire (see 2013 bullpen).  You do that year after year and it is no mystery why the Rangers and A's and Dodgers are playing for their respective division championships and the Angels are left to look up for how long now?  Oh, yeah for the past four years.

 

So -- below is a listing for players brought up to make their debuts in order to fill a team need as you claimed.  I've also listed in season trades made by both teams to try to address those pesky in season needs.

 

2010

 
Player/Career WAR/ Misc factoid
 
Angels:
 

Jordan Walden, 2.0, All Star 2010 

Mark Trumbo, 7.6, All Star 2011

Andrew Romine, 0.1

Fransisco Rodriguez, 0.4

Michael Kohn, 0.8

Hank Conger, 1.4
Bobby Cassevah, 0.4
Peter Borjous, 8.4
 
8 players, 21.1 WAR, 2 All Star appearances
 
In season trades -  Sean O'Sullivan and Will Smith for Alberto Callaspo.  Pat Corbin, Nick Skaggs, Rafael Rodriguez and Joe Saunders for Dan Haren.  

Players traded away - 6

 
Rangers:
 
Justin Smoak,1.4, Traded for Cliff Lee. (A move paid for by the other 29 teams as the Rangers were in BK)
Alexi Ogando, 9.5, All Star 2011
Mitch Moreland, 1.9
Michael Kirman, 0.0 
Omar Beltre,  (-0.2)
 
5 players, 12.6 WAR, 1 All Star appearance
 
In season trades - Mike Main, Chris Ray for Bengie Molina.  Matt Lawson, Blake Bavean, Josh Lueke, Justin Smoak for Cliff Lee. Omar Poveda and Evan Reed for Jorge Cantu.  Ryan Tatsuko and Tanner Roark for Christian Guzman.  Joaquin Arias for Jeff Francouer.
 
Players traded away - 11
____
 
2011
 
Player/Career WAR/ Misc factoid
 
Angels:
 
Mike Trout, 20.8, All Star 2012,13
Garret Richards, (-0.4)
Efren Navarro, 0.1
Jeremy Moore, 0.0
Alexi Amarista, (0.1)
 
5 players, 20.6 WAR, 2 All Star appearances
 
In season trades -- NONE
 
Rangers:
 
Mason Tobin, (-0.1) Selected FROM Angels via Rule V draft.
Yashinori Tateyama, (-0.3)
Leonys Martin, 3.3
Mark Hamburger, 0.0
Cody Eppley, 0.1
 
5 players, 3.0 WAR, no all stars.
 
In season trades - Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter for Koji Uehara. Joe Wielan and Robbie Erlin for Mike Adams.  Pedro Strop for Mike Gonzalez.
 
Players traded away - 5
____
 
2012

Angels

 
Player/Career WAR/ Misc factoid
 
Andrew Taylor - (-0.1)
Jean Segura - 4.1, All Star 2013
Nick Maronde - (-0.2)
Steve Geltz - 0.0, Traded for Dane DelaRosa
Kole Calhoun - 0.4 Notable Ginger
 
5 players, 4.2 WAR, 1 All Star appearance.
 
In season trades - Donn Roach, Alexi Amarista for Enesto Frieri.  Frazier Hall for Barry Enright. Angel Pena, Johnny Hellweg, Jean Segura for Zach Grienke.  
 
Players traded away - 6
 
Rangers:
 
Tanner Scheppers, 2.5
Robbie Ross, 3.2
Jurrickson Profar, (-0.1)
Martin Perez, 1.4
Mike Olt, (-0.2), Traded for Matt Garza
Justin Grimm, (-1.8), Traded for Matt Garza
Wimer Font, 0.0
Yu Darvish, 9.7,  All Star 2012/13, Purchased for 61 Million posting fee, plus 50 Mil
 
8 players, 14.7 WAR, 2 All Star appearances
 
Players traded away - Jacob Brigham for Geo Soto.  Christian Villanueva, Kyle Hendricks for Ryan Dempster

Players traded away - 3

_____
 
2013
 
Player/Career WAR/ Misc factoid
 
Angels
 
Matt Carpenter, 0.3
Michael Roth, (-0.5)
Luis Jimenez, 0.4
Ryan Brasier, 0.2
Buddy Boshers, 0.1
 
5 players, 0.5 WAR
 
In season trades - Kyle Johnson for Collin Cowgill.  Scott Downs for Cory Rasmus.  Alberto Callasp for Dallas Green
 
Players added via trade -- 2

Rangers

 
Nick Tepesch, (-0.2)
Joe Ortiz, (-0.3)
Chris McGuiness, (-0.5)
Leury Garcia, (-0.1)
Joey Butler, 0,1
Engel Beltre, 0.0
Jim Adduci, 0.1
 
7 players, (-0.8) WAR
 
In Season trades - PTBN for Robinson Chirinos.  Mike Olt, Neil Ramirez, CJ Edwards, and Justin Grimm for Matt Garza.  Luery Garcia for Alex Rios.  PTBN and cash for Travis Blackley
 
Players traded away - 7
 
Net players traded away  Angels, 10 - Rangers, 26
 
Yup -- you're right -- the Rangers are totally putting 5+ guys into the majors (29.5 WAR), while the Angels struggle to find 2, maybe three (46,4 WAR).  And you nailed it when you said the Rangers don't have to make trades, they just call guys up unlike the Angels who are forced to trade away talent.
Edited by Inside Pitch
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You mean the Angels "dominated" as in past tense from FOUR YEAR AGO PLUS?  Who cares about four or five years ago?  I am talking about how these other teams bring up or acquire four and five decent to good players a year while the Angels are bringing up or acquiring two, sometimes three plus a bunch of fillers.  When there is a need during the year, they pull from their minors while the Angels look for trades and to the waiver wire (see 2013 bullpen).  You do that year after year and it is no mystery why the Rangers and A's and Dodgers are playing for their respective division championships and the Angels are left to look up for how long now?  Oh, yeah for the past four years.

 

And who are the Angels bringing up from the minors this year, whether drafted or signed internationally?  Anyone?  Who is in the pipe to be brought up next year when the openings inevitably come?  Anyone?  My point is a team cannot get better simply by signing major league free agents and making trades and giving away draft picks.  It is swimming against the tide ...

 

I know you think you're making a point by pointing out the Angels last won the division four years ago..  Great.  The Rangers last won the division TWO years ago.  Now what?  Does that mean they are epic failures too or are you going to block that out like everything else you've dismissed and just keep focusing solely on the things that support your myopic opinion?  What do you make of the Angels refusal to burn a draft pick to sign a FA this year while the Rangers burned theirs to sign Choo?  Do you think maybe it means the Halos are trying avoid repeating recent errors?  Are the Rangers now guilty of making the same mistakes the Angels did now that they are trying to remain a contender?  

 

In response to your question about potential call ups..  How about Cron, or Lindsey?  How about Morin or Alvarez?  Would they count or does their exclusion from top 100 lists mean they don't count?  Now you tell me.. Who are the Rangers bringing up?  No doubt you'll have as much success coming up with the names as you did in naming those "stars" you claimed they called up... All ONE of them.... (Darvish), the guy who was basically a FA.  

 

Enjoy your misery dude...  The Angels have done better than you are trying to make it seem, and I highly doubt they will have to wait ten years to be relevant again like the Rangers.

 

Also -- LOL at pointing to the Dodgers as an example of anything other than a team with a lot of cash.

Edited by Inside Pitch
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 Bill Parcells once said, "You are what your record says you are".  That record said the Angels were 3rd in the West, 18 games back of Oakland and 12.5 games back of Texas last year.  This begs the questions then, Dude, of what have the Angels done in the past year and what will they do in following years to overcome this significant deficit? 

 

Forget Oakland as they are too far in the distance.  As for Texas, they added in late 2012 OF Alex Rios and RP Joakim Soria.  They have added 1b Fielder, OF's Choo and  Choice, as well as C's Geovany Soto and J.P. Arencibia.  They also get back injured players RP Neftali Felix and SP Matt Harrison.  Quantity and Quality.  The Angels acquired SP's Hector Santiago and Tyler Skaggs, and 3b David Freese in trades.  They also signed OF/DH Raul Ibanez and RP Joe Smith.  Are there any sure fire starters in that Angels list?   The Angels had to give up Trumbo and Bourjos.  I think the Rangers only traded Ian Kinsler.  Who would you say had the better off season?  Did the Angels do enough to overcame the 12.5 game deficit of 2013?  I think it is obvious that Texas had a better off season.

 

You have given me an exhaustive list of players from both teams from 2010 through 2013.  As I do not care who was traded away for whom in the past, Corbin and Segura are not on my list.  They might as well have been traded away for a bucket of balls as those trades do nothing for the Angels in 2014.  I will summarize your list with players still contributing to the two teams as follows:

 

Angels  2010 Mark Trumbo - traded this year for SP Tyler Skaggs and SP Hector Santiago

                      Michael Kohn - iffy RP

                      Hank Conger - backup catcher

             2011 Mike Trout - a super star

                      Garrett Richards - starting pitcher

             2012 Kole Calhoun - starting outfielder?

             2013 ---

 

Rangers 2010 Alexi Ogando - starting pitcher (international?)

                        Mitch Moreland -starting DH

               2011 Leonys Martin - starting CF (international)

               2012 Tanner Scheppers - starting pitcher

                        Jurickson Profar - starting 2b (international)

                        Martin Perez - starting pitcher (international?)

               2013 Nick Tepesch - starting pitcher

                        Yu Darvish - star starting pitcher (international)

 

Even with Mike Trout on the Angels list, the Rangers list is better.  Angels: One super star and two or three starters.  Rangers: One star and seven starters.  Why?  The international signings.  Even a blind man should be able to see this.  Now look at the top 10 prospect lists according to MLB for the two teams.

 

Rangers: #1 Jorge Alfaro, C (international)

                #2 Luis Sardinas, SS (international)

                #4 Roughns Odor, 2B (international)

                #6 Wilmer Fort, RP (international) 

                #7 Ronald Guzman, 1B (international)

                #8 Jairo Beras, OF (international)

 

Angels: #8 Ricardo Sanchez, LHP (international)

 

Not enough?  Let's look at BaseballAmerica's top 30 international signings list for 2013 (as of 8-15-2013):

 

#6  Marcos Diplan, RHP Dominican Republic (Rangers)

#7  Yeyson Yrizarri, SS Venezuela/Dom. Rep. (Rangers)

#14 Jesus Lopez, SS Nicaragua (Athletics)

#17 Carlos Hiciano, SS Dominican Republic (Athletics)

#26 Michael Deleon, SS Dominican Republic (Rangers)
#27 Ricardo Sanchez, LHP Venezuela (Angles)

 

And there is that same Ricardo Sanchez shown above.  None of the three Rangers international signings from 2013 can get into the Rangers top 10 even though they are rated higher than the Angels signing of Sanchez.  So which team do you think will have a minor league player ready to step up to the ML club when there is a particular need? Yeah, the one with the deeper prospect list.  I didn't even get to the top 100 prospect list for all of baseball.  Tell me - how many Rangers are on that list?  How many Angels?

 

I am not trying to beat up on the Angels.  It is a good thing they signed LHP Lianmy Galan.  I am also not trying to nit pick over the international director/scouting problems which are past.  I am saying the Rangers are consistently outsigning the Angels in international free agents where no draft picks have to be given up.  As such, the Rangers minor league system is producing more major league ready young talent and it shows on the rosters.  So you tell me, how are the Angels to make up the deficit in talent?  How are the Angels to catch up if the other team is signing better talent and developing better talent?  Tell me who is working harder to get better?  The team in third place in the West, over 12 games behind second place?

Edited by avejoe1
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