If 2014 sucks

[Stradling]

If the Angels are below average next year, then it is time to go into more of an aggressive reload. As long as we have Hamilton and Pujols we will not rebuild, it is nearly impossible. I think we have one guy that can bring in a ton of talent assuming we are willing to trade him at the deadline. That guy is CJ Wilson. I know we need starting pitching more than we need anything else so it may sound backwards, but if he pitches next year like he did this year, he can land us that future ace and probably another prospect or two. He can only block trades to 8 teams in 2014, so moving him is certainly a possibility.

Face it the Angels won't trade Weaver, nor should they. I still believe loyalty is important and trading Weaver, especially if you do that before signing Trout, would send Trout the wrong message.

[wopphil]

Not totally sure I agree regarding Wilson. He has been good, but not great, the last two years, and he is neither young nor cheap. I guess if he dominates the first three months of the season, we may get salary relief and a couple 50-100 prospects, but I don't see him getting us more than that (and even salary relief and two 50-100 prospects is probably a stretch).

[eaterfan]

I think if we are the same team as we were this year we will still try to go for it again in 15. But I think we will have missed our best shot at reloading. All of our assets become older, more expensive and lose years of club control. Not to mention the prospects we get will be a year delayed in contributing. I think this is the offseason to rebuild.

 

CJ has some value but he's a #2 or #3 starter on playoff teams and he's paid very handsomely. Not sure how much value he really has.

 

I also think if this team is the same as last year's team it's time for Arte to realize that he has about $45 million in dead weight a year that he is just going to have to eat until Hamilton is off the books.

[tdawg87]

The team likely won't trade Weaver, but if he is healthy next year than he is unfortunately the team's best shot at getting a package of great prospects outside of Trout.

[tdawg87]

Also, CJ is the type of pitcher the Angels need to fill their number 3 spot, yet most of us hope we can get that type of pitcher with Trumbo/Bourjos alone. I'm not sure we should expect a ton of prospects in return for him if the Angels are able to do just that.

[Stradling]

Wilson would have a lot of value in my opinion because any team that trades for him has him for the remainder of this season and two more seasons. He can win games down the stretch for a team to help them get into the playoffs. He also has pitched in big games in the past, even if he has had mixed results, the experience is good to have.

[The God of Runs]

I was never a really big fan of CJ, so I got no problem with getting rid of him. But, the Halos sucking in 2014 will have very little to do with CJ. For the most part, he will be a decent player for his tenure as an Angel. So, it's really just a matter of what they can get for him.

[eaterfan]

Wilson would have a lot of value in my opinion because any team that trades for him has him for the remainder of this season and two more seasons. He can win games down the stretch for a team to help them get into the playoffs. He also has pitched in big games in the past, even if he has had mixed results, the experience is good to have.

 

Wilson would have a lot of value if those 2 years were cheap. They aren't. He has a high AAV on his contract and it's back loaded.

[Stradling]

With the cost of pitching it's still a reasonable contract to take on.

[Schildog]

when 2014 sucks.

[Ohtaniland]

Weaver has a full no-trade clause. Wilson can block trades to 8 clubs annually. These guys aren't going anywhere.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Hamiltown

[nando714]

I wonder if season ticket sales are down

[eaterfan]

With the cost of pitching it's still a reasonable contract to take on.

 

$18 Million in 2015

$20 Million in 2016

 

Still pretty expensive.

[Angel Oracle]

Two years/$38 million is still a lot better than what pitchers are going for on the FA market.

[ukyah]

Two years/$38 million is still a lot better than what pitchers are going for on the FA market.

 

 

sweet jesus, AO just said what i was thinking. excuse me guys,  i need to make a doctor's appointment.

[eaterfan]

Two years/$38 million is still a lot better than what pitchers are going for on the FA market.

 

Those years will be his 34 and 35 Seasons. Granted he's a lefty and they can sometimes pitch until they're Jamie Moyer's age, but I doubt we see $38 million for 2 years of a starter at that age any time soon. But even if that does happen, giving up that much money and giving up real talent is a stretch. Maybe if the Angel's eat a decent portion of his contract.

[Stradling]

Ok, the only way he gets dealt is if he has a strong first half of 2014. If he does that then he will be going on 1.5 straight seasons of pitching very well. I am guessing a team would give up talent to get a strong #2 for the stretch drive. If it is a team that needs pitching then what are they going to pay for that pitching the following off season? It will be a hell of a lot more than two years and $38 million.

[halobob]

I wonder if season ticket sales are down

My guess is yes.

[Stradling]

My guess is yes.

I'll let you know after I get my email response.

[eaterfan]

Dan Haren was age 29 when he was traded to the Angels. He was a better pitcher than Wilson and owed much less money. We had one of the dumbest GMs in baseball. They got 2 good pitching prospects for him. I wouldn't expect that kind of return for Wilson.

[Stradling]

when 2014 sucks.

this post took a lot longer than expected.

[Angel Oracle]

Dayton Moore might do it (acquire Wilson for two excellent prospects).

Coach nods head in frustratingly agreement. 

 

He did the same for Shields (three prospects actually).

Edited October 29, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[CaliAngel]

Dan Haren was age 29 when he was traded to the Angels. He was a better pitcher than Wilson and owed much less money. We had one of the dumbest GMs in baseball. They got 2 good pitching prospects for him. I wouldn't expect that kind of return for Wilson.

 

Yeah I know Haren appeared in decline but I actually thought he was one of those arms we shoulda kept.

 

If 2014 sucks I will probably watch less Angels baseball just to keep me from pulling my hair out as often.

[Angelsjunky]

First things first. The aggressive reload might (should) happen this year, or at least a mild-to-moderately aggressive reload. The Angels can't afford to suck it up again in 2014 - Jerry can't, and Arte won't live with it.

 

That said, they both realize that the Angels have an 85-win team as is (that is, assuming Hamilton and Pujols bounce back even just halfway), so won't do a complete fire-sale. The team as is with a bit better luck and some positive regressive is pretty good, but not quite good enough to feel good about. Watching the Red Sox and Cardinals reminds us all just how important pitching is and that you can't write off the bullpen as a project each year. What the Angels will do is look to transform excess in the OF and middle infield into pitching.

 

3-5 of the following will likely be traded: Kendrick, Aybar, Trumbo, Bourjos, Iannetta. From that you get a major league ready youngish starter (Trumbo for Cashner?), a couple very good relievers, and a prospect or two. You also go after Tanaka and someone like Brian Wilson, so you have a two-pronged approach and aren't relying on trades to improve the team. If they end up signing Tanaka and can't get a major league ready starter for any of the above, you go after prospects and replenish the farm.

 

All of a sudden that 85-win team is 90-95-win with a slightly deeper farm system, and you're in business.

[Troll Daddy]

This is a depressing thread. Can't it wait until the team actually sucks.

Might as well just trade Trout.