Weaver is not an ace anymore

[19HALO71]

LOL!!!

Weaver is still an ACE.

He was off, that's it.

Any major league pitcher will tell you that if you miss your pitches, just don't miss up in the zone, you will get rocked.

[stormngt]

Its funny but if we go back in time when Weaver first came up most people said Weaver didn't have the stuff to be an Ace.  Most projected him as a #3 or #4 pitcher.  Weaver certainly proved that wrong then.  Let's hope he proves them wrong again.

[krAbs]

Here's the thing:

 

An "ace" is someone who can count on a certain pitch to get an out when he absolutely has to. For most "aces", it's a ridiculous fastball, for some, it's a wipeout slider, for others, it's an extreme yakker.

 

Weaver has none of these. He relies on deception and pinpoint control. When you hear scouts or other talent evaluators talk about prospects' future projections, they talk about pitchers who rely on deception and pinpoint control, and put labels on them like "#3 or #4" starter. 

 

As for pitchers I would rather have than Weaver, right now, that list includes King Felix, Verlander, Scherzer, Strasburg, Bumgarner, Kershaw, Lee, Cole, Latos, Price, Jarrod Parker (when he gets back), Ryu, Iwakuma, Tanaka, Yu, Sale, Jose Fernandez, and Wheeler. Last year, I would have added Harvey to that list (and probably next year as well, along with Archie Bradley and Jon Gray--although that might not happen until 2016).

 

Weaver is not an "ace", he just happens to be our #1 (there is a difference), but that may no longer be true, either.

 

This is not a knock on Weaver at all. He has certainly done his job over the years, but with someone who never had much velocity to begin with, any decline in that aspect of his game is going to narrow the margin of error significantly, We may be seeing the results of that now.

Came here to say basically this (though this is said better than i ever could).

basically, weaver is probably not an ace in the traditional sense of the word anymore. he is not that guy who is going to come out every game he pitches and dominate. he's probably not going to be a cy young candidate. but that doesn't make him a bad pitcher, and that doesn't mean the angels are screwed. he is still a solid #1 (very different form an ace, imo- basically that means he's a top 30 starter). and, from that mentality, i would say we don't NEED an ace. its great to have one, but not all teams are going to have one. if our 2-5 is competitive (which, watching richards and skaggs, i'm starting to think it may be...granted, sample size, and astros), with our hitting, we are still going to be in a great spot. just my 2 cents. so...yeah, weaver may not be a true ace, but no, thats not the end of the world.

[Guest]

(Re: jered not being a true ace anymore) Your claim may or may not have merit.

However, I'm pretty disgusted at how quickly some of you turn against the players on this team.

Why are you insulting Jered by saying he's a number 3 starter? That's incredibly classless to say given how much of a stand up guy Weav is. He's one of the few players in this sport who actual cares about the game and his team more than a big contract. That's in addition to consistently delivering as a #1 SP

The least you could do is show some respect to the guy and not resort to outlandish statements intended solely to insult.

Edited April 7, 2014 by failos

[tdawg87]

Holy overreaction Batman.

[Stradling]

I would agree that he isn't a dominating ace anymore but no he isn't a number 3 either. Lets see how he does over his next several starts to label him. He is throwing just as hard as he was last year, but the control isn't there right now, which could be a small little adjustment to his release point. He was sitting around 86 or 87 with a couple up to 89 yesterday. If he can pitch right there but with his usual control he will be just fine and still a number one pitcher.

[ten ocho recon scout]

you shut your goddamned whore mouth.

lol

[tdawg87]

Weaver is a number 1.49265 pitcher.

[YouthofToday]

(Re: jered not being a true ace anymore) Your claim may or may not have merit.

However, I'm pretty disgusted at how quickly some of you turn against the players on this team.

Why are you insulting Jered by saying he's a number 3 starter? That's incredibly classless to say given how much of a stand up guy Weav is. He's one of the few players in this sport who actual cares about the game and his team more than a big contract. That's in addition to consistently delivering as a #1 SP

The least you could do is show some respect to the guy and not resort to outlandish statements intended solely to insult.

Classless? Seriously?

So having an opinion that does not conform to conventional wisdom must only be I stemmed to insult somebody?

I don't even know where to begin with this ad hominem and illogical perspective.

[NrM]

Classless? Seriously?

So having an opinion that does not conform to conventional wisdom must only be I stemmed to insult somebody?

I don't even know where to begin with this ad hominem and illogical perspective.

sarcasm

[Mark68]

He's actually a #

3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679    8214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196    4428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273    724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609...

pitcher.

[Hollyw00d]

he's a pi thrower?

[Guest]

Classless? Seriously?

So having an opinion that does not conform to conventional wisdom must only be I stemmed to insult somebody?

I don't even know where to begin with this ad hominem and illogical perspective.

[Angel Oracle]

He's actually a #

3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679  
  8214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196  
  4428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273  
  724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609...

pitcher.

D_mn it! Beat me to it.

[Angel Oracle]

he's a pi thrower?

I hear he's a fan of "Tigers".

[mancini79]

[Jammer36]

Ha! I was waiting for this to be bumped.

[mancini79]

He hasn't given up more than 2 ERs since his rough start on April 12th. Here are his numbers in that stretch:

47.2 IP, 1.70 ERA, 33 H, 12 BB, 33 SO, 0.94 WHIP

 

Not bad for a "2 or 3 starter".

[Stradling]

I would agree that he isn't a dominating ace anymore but no he isn't a number 3 either. Lets see how he does over his next several starts to label him. He is throwing just as hard as he was last year, but the control isn't there right now, which could be a small little adjustment to his release point. He was sitting around 86 or 87 with a couple up to 89 yesterday. If he can pitch right there but with his usual control he will be just fine and still a number one pitcher.

This is pretty good prediction except he's actually been better than even I (a nutswinger) thought he would be.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Stradling

[bloodbrother]

Just went through each page. I got one post in this thread and I don't come off looking like and idoit

 

phew

[Angelsjunky]

Well he certainly is pitching better than a #3, but I don't quite see the dominance of a true ace ala Darvish, Wainwright, Felix, Fernandez, Scherzer, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

 

That said, I remain concerned about his continually dimishing fastball velocity. It is down for yet another year and doesn't seem to be improving. Fangraphs doesn't have yesterday's game up, but he ranged from averaging 84.0 to 86.7 mph on his fastball in his first nine starts, with no upward trend. He is able to remain effective throwing an 85-mph fastball, but what if it keeps slipping? I don't think he'll collapse but he could be another Jamie Moyer in just a couple years.

[NrM]

I knew this was going to get bumped, but I'm glad it did, because that means he's doing great.

[nando714]

Nice bump lol

[19HALO71]

Winning!!

[mtangelsfan]

This thread is awesome because its a perfect picture of this board overall.  We are quick to turn on players, we are reactionary and our fandom most times dulls our logic. 

 

That is what makes us all fans though.  Regardless, there isn't any other starter on this team I would want pitching for us in a big game than Weaver and there aren't many AL pitchers I would pick over Weaver to pitch that big game for us.  I'm very happy that he is our best pitcher and that he likes being an Angel.

Edited May 22, 2014 by mtangelsfan