Thoughts on the reworked bullpen

[mmc]

The pen has been completely reworked this offseason, which players do you think will shine and how do you see it shaping up this season?  I'm guessing we're likely to start with

Estevez

Stephenson

Moore

Soriano

Garcia

Cimber

Cisnero

Suarez

with Bachman and Quijada starting the season injured, and Joyce, Herget, Mederos, Wantz, Caceres, Zuniga as options on the 40 man, and Pomeranz, Kolarek, Strickland, Marte, and Crouse on minor league deals behind them

[Angels 1961]

20 minutes ago, mmc said:

The pen has been completely reworked this offseason, which players do you think will shine and how do you see it shaping up this season?  I'm guessing we're likely to start with

Estevez

Stephenson

Moore

Soriano

Garcia

Cimber

Cisnero

Suarez

with Bachman and Quijada starting the season injured, and Joyce, Herget, Mederos, Wantz, Caceres, Zuniga as options on the 40 man, and Pomeranz, Kolarek, Strickland, Marte, and Crouse on minor league deals behind them

Plesac could end up in mix as long man, Pomeranz I think ends up on opening day roster.

[Erstad Grit]

I mean that's about all we've added. 

Looks like the hope is kids continue to improve, SPs take steps forward, injuries are minimal, and new pen is nails. 

[BTH]

I also see the pen starting out that way.

It won’t surprise me if multiple of Cimber/Cisnero/García end up getting DFAd by mid-June.

I’d like to think one of Caceres/Joyce/Zuñiga steps up and grabs ahold of a spot at some point.

[Ochocinco!]

I’m still confused as to why we gave Garcia his what $4-5 mill? Seems like he won’t be much more than a 5th-6th inning guy. Seems like a lot for a guy who’s spot could have easily been replaced by guys like Koralek, Pomeranz, Cimber etc (who are all min deals) or could have just kept Barria who pitches fine when it’s not high leverage.
I’m knit picking here but just seems we could have used that $4 mill elsewhere 

[BTH]

3 minutes ago, Ochocinco! said:

I’m still confused as to why we gave Garcia his what $4-5 mill? Seems like he won’t be much more than a 5th-6th inning guy. Seems like a lot for a guy who’s spot could have easily been replaced by guys like Koralek, Pomeranz, Cimber etc (who are all min deals) or could have just kept Barria who pitches fine when it’s not high leverage.
I’m knit picking here but just seems we could have used that $4 mill elsewhere 

They must be confident he bounces back to his 2022 form.

Because there are guys who had betters years than him last year who got less money.

Diekman, Miller, Suter, Floro, Alexander, Farmer, Gott.

[Ochocinco!]

Yeah i suppose so it’s just weird to me. We signed him so early on in the off-season and for that price.. never made sense. Just seems like a guy that’ll tank by mid season, we release him then Rays pick him up and he immediately becomes a stud 

[Inside Pitch]

13 hours ago, Ochocinco! said:

I’m still confused as to why we gave Garcia his what $4-5 mill? Seems like he won’t be much more than a 5th-6th inning guy. Seems like a lot for a guy who’s spot could have easily been replaced by guys like Koralek, Pomeranz, Cimber etc (who are all min deals) or could have just kept Barria who pitches fine when it’s not high leverage.
I’m knit picking here but just seems we could have used that $4 mill elsewhere 

His FB sees to be what people talked up, but his slider was stupid good.  The Angels have really been focusing on guys with a certain pitch profile, they may believe it's something they tap at into.  I think its dumb to pay for unrealized performance but it may be why the price tag was what it was

[Erstad Grit]

10 hours ago, Ochocinco! said:

I’m still confused as to why we gave Garcia his what $4-5 mill? Seems like he won’t be much more than a 5th-6th inning guy. Seems like a lot for a guy who’s spot could have easily been replaced by guys like Koralek, Pomeranz, Cimber etc (who are all min deals) or could have just kept Barria who pitches fine when it’s not high leverage.
I’m knit picking here but just seems we could have used that $4 mill elsewhere 

Seems strange giving him that much if we're reducing payroll too. 

[Angel Oracle]

The thing I noticed about García is the improved control the past 3 years.

Averaged under 3 BBs per 9 innings since 2021, after having spotty control through 2020 (4.5 BBs per 9 innings to that point).   WHIP since 2021 is 1.23.

Edited February 21 by Angel Oracle

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

If I keep seeing Joyce lead with his elbow and his front side leak I'm going to explode before his elbow does... again

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Moore, Stephenson and Estevez will be fine. I'm hopeful of a big step up for Soriano! Garcia - meh I've seen this one before.

The rest are roster option guys!

[Hubs]

21 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Plesac could end up in mix as long man, Pomeranz I think ends up on opening day roster.

There is zero chance Pomeranz ends up on the opening day roster.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

There is zero chance Pomeranz ends up on the opening day roster.

[Vlad27Trout27]

I think Soriano and Joyce will both breakout and dominate! Moore was solid get and a good Plan B if needed for the closer role. Both Estavez and Stephenson, it'll be interesting to see if they can repeat there success next year. But we shall see, I think it'll be fine and a strong point of the team. 

[Mateofranco]

I think the back end of the bullpen will be solid. I would though to see them intentionally develop long relievers and have at least 2 of them in the pen.  The one inning reliever system for the middle innings doesn't work so well. If one of the three relievers stinks that game, the game quickly gets out of hand. Having a few good, long relievers who can pitch 2-3 innings, 2x a week would be a better way to go.  

At the beginning of the year when starters don't usually go even five innings this is a good way to go. It's also a way to get young would-be starters major league innings in lower pressure innings.  Someone like Davis Daniel comes to mind. Jose Suarez and Kenny Rosenberg also. They can keep a team in the game when the starter gives up 4 or 5 runs and gets pulled by the 4th or 5th inning.  You aren't then doing the one inning parade.  Having more than one long reliever will likely make it actually work. 

I also think they should figure out who in the pen is great at stranding inherited runners.  Last year they had Chris Devenski, who started out the year mostly doing that. Then Nevin overused him. 

 

[greginpsca]

21 minutes ago, Mateofranco said:

I think the back end of the bullpen will be solid. I would though to see them intentionally develop long relievers and have at least 2 of them in the pen.  The one inning reliever system for the middle innings doesn't work so well. If one of the three relievers stinks that game, the game quickly gets out of hand. Having a few good, long relievers who can pitch 2-3 innings, 2x a week would be a better way to go.  

At the beginning of the year when starters don't usually go even five innings this is a good way to go. It's also a way to get young would-be starters major league innings in lower pressure innings.  Someone like Davis Daniel comes to mind. Jose Suarez and Kenny Rosenberg also. They can keep a team in the game when the starter gives up 4 or 5 runs and gets pulled by the 4th or 5th inning.  You aren't then doing the one inning parade.  Having more than one long reliever will likely make it actually work. 

I also think they should figure out who in the pen is great at stranding inherited runners.  Last year they had Chris Devenski, who started out the year mostly doing that. Then Nevin overused him. 

 

I have said the same thing. One inning guys will be toast by the second half of the season when starters are averaging 4-5 innings. Another benefit is that if an injury happen to a starter, one of those guys will be stretched out to slide into the rotation. Then you can bring up another long guy and not have him thrown into the fire right away as a starter.

[BTH]

5 hours ago, Mateofranco said:

I think the back end of the bullpen will be solid. I would though to see them intentionally develop long relievers and have at least 2 of them in the pen. 

This.

Or, as I’ve theorized in the past, how about developing a bunch of relievers that can pitch 3 innings or ~1 time through the order. Build them up to 40-50 pitches and 2-3 days rest.

Looking at the current 40-man, guys who could easily fit in that role: Bachman, Caceres, Daniel, Herget, Mederos, Suarez, Wantz.

[Chuck]

13 hours ago, Mateofranco said:

I think the back end of the bullpen will be solid. I would though to see them intentionally develop long relievers and have at least 2 of them in the pen.  The one inning reliever system for the middle innings doesn't work so well. If one of the three relievers stinks that game, the game quickly gets out of hand. Having a few good, long relievers who can pitch 2-3 innings, 2x a week would be a better way to go.  

At the beginning of the year when starters don't usually go even five innings this is a good way to go. It's also a way to get young would-be starters major league innings in lower pressure innings.  Someone like Davis Daniel comes to mind. Jose Suarez and Kenny Rosenberg also. They can keep a team in the game when the starter gives up 4 or 5 runs and gets pulled by the 4th or 5th inning.  You aren't then doing the one inning parade.  Having more than one long reliever will likely make it actually work. 

I also think they should figure out who in the pen is great at stranding inherited runners.  Last year they had Chris Devenski, who started out the year mostly doing that. Then Nevin overused him. 

 

Great first post, @Mateofranco! 

Welcome to AngelsWin.com! 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

On 2/21/2024 at 5:22 PM, Mateofranco said:

I think the back end of the bullpen will be solid. I would though to see them intentionally develop long relievers and have at least 2 of them in the pen.  The one inning reliever system for the middle innings doesn't work so well. If one of the three relievers stinks that game, the game quickly gets out of hand. Having a few good, long relievers who can pitch 2-3 innings, 2x a week would be a better way to go.  

At the beginning of the year when starters don't usually go even five innings this is a good way to go. It's also a way to get young would-be starters major league innings in lower pressure innings.  Someone like Davis Daniel comes to mind. Jose Suarez and Kenny Rosenberg also. They can keep a team in the game when the starter gives up 4 or 5 runs and gets pulled by the 4th or 5th inning.  You aren't then doing the one inning parade.  Having more than one long reliever will likely make it actually work. 

I also think they should figure out who in the pen is great at stranding inherited runners.  Last year they had Chris Devenski, who started out the year mostly doing that. Then Nevin overused him. 

 

2 spots 2-3 innings 1-2x a week burns out a bullpen worse. Plus, you may lose someone you could use in a pinch either as an emergency setup guy or closer. Moore & Stephenson could play Closer as could Soriano or Joyce in a pinch. Even Bachman if in the pen that's 5 spots not including Estevez.

How many guys do you want in the pen?

[totdprods]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:26 AM, Ochocinco! said:

Yeah i suppose so it’s just weird to me. We signed him so early on in the off-season and for that price.. never made sense. Just seems like a guy that’ll tank by mid season, we release him then Rays pick him up and he immediately becomes a stud 

$4.5m isn't that much. I imagine there is something they really like about him or they felt they needed to lock him in before other teams started calling/offering. 

[Halo in Chicago]

I'm happy to not see Aaron Loup waddle out to the mound...

[Angels 1961]

19 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

2 spots 2-3 innings 1-2x a week burns out a bullpen worse. Plus, you may lose someone you could use in a pinch either as an emergency setup guy or closer. Moore & Stephenson could play Closer as could Soriano or Joyce in a pinch. Even Bachman if in the pen that's 5 spots not including Estevez.

How many guys do you want in the pen?

8 in the BP plus 12 at SLC.

[ShotimeDynasty]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:11 AM, Ochocinco! said:

I’m still confused as to why we gave Garcia his what $4-5 mill? Seems like he won’t be much more than a 5th-6th inning guy. Seems like a lot for a guy who’s spot could have easily been replaced by guys like Koralek, Pomeranz, Cimber etc (who are all min deals) or could have just kept Barria who pitches fine when it’s not high leverage.
I’m knit picking here but just seems we could have used that $4 mill elsewhere 

In 4 of his last 7 seasons he’s posted better than 0.5 fWAR with best career year coming in 2022 (1.6!!). $4M for this profile seems pretty fair and feels like a solid gamble. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

21 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

8 in the BP plus 12 at SLC.

IF you need 20 guys to get through a season in a Bullpen.... 

 

You're not very good... And your talent level isn't very good either! Or, too many injuries which would go to either strength training, development/coaching, or scouting.