Angels did not match the Dodgers offer

[bloodbrother]

Don't have a problem with this if the report is true tbh. Right now, the Angels simply aren't in the position to be throwing around a contract like that compared to somebody like the Dodgers. This is the type of move you make when you are already a clear cut playoff/WS contender. They need to keep their payroll flexible while developing from within for the time being IMO. Stick with short-term deals right now and look more towards mid-tier FA's

Edited December 15, 2023 by bloodbrother

[Lhalo]

Just now, bloodbrother said:

Don't have a problem with this if the report is true tbh. Right now, the Angels simply aren't in the position to be throwing around a contract like that compared to somebody like the Dodgers. This is the type of move you make when you are already a clear cut playoff/WS contender. They need to keep their payroll flexible while developing from within for the time being IMO. Stick with short-term deals right now

They aren't in a position to handle a contract like that because they've bumbled and fucked this franchise up for over a decade. A good owner, knowing what he had in his hands should have been prepared for Ohtani to ask for the biggest contract ever. Instead he traded away more of the decimated farm for a season ending in oblivion.

[bloodbrother]

29 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

They aren't in a position to handle a contract like that because they've bumbled and fucked this franchise up for over a decade. A good owner, knowing what he had in his hands should have been prepared for Ohtani to ask for the biggest contract ever. Instead he traded away more of the decimated farm for a season ending in oblivion.

Correct. They've been poorly run for years now, which is why they continue to finish sub .500 every year with zero traction in one direction or another(contending or rebuilding).  As a fan, you can only hope they finally start to figure things out eventually, though it's probably unlikely with the same figure heads in charge. 

 

 

[floplag]

so.. he wouldnt trade him, then wouldnt pay what it took?  either he was totally out of touch with the costs or just didnt have the balls 

[Oldtimer]

Lucas Golitto  and Reynaldo Lopez for Ky Bush and Edgar Quero.  Now, no Golitto, no Lopez, no Bush or Quero.  Brilliant baseball leadership.   

[ten ocho recon scout]

25 minutes ago, floplag said:

so.. he wouldnt trade him, then wouldnt pay what it took?  either he was totally out of touch with the costs or just didnt have the balls 

Was thinking about this over the last few days.

You can't fault Moreno or other owners for not having the money to compete with the Dodgers (and to a lesser extent the Yankees, Mets, etc). Any more than I can compete with people eicher than me.

That being said, if he's unable or unwilling to, he needs to sell to someone who is. Period. 

Merely holding on because you want to own something is fine if it doesn't effect anyone else. But not having rhe ability to compete is shitty for both the fan base and the org.

I was talking to a few Dodger fans the other day, and I hated to admit this (to them or anyone else), but I saw firsthand the transition from the Angels being a team that marquee guys were trying to get traded to to a team that guys weren't interested in coming to. And it wasn't due to money.

[floplag]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Was thinking about this over the last few days.

You can't fault Moreno or other owners for not having the money to compete with the Dodgers (and to a lesser extent the Yankees, Mets, etc). Any more than I can compete with people eicher than me.

That being said, if he's unable or unwilling to, he needs to sell to someone who is. Period. 

Merely holding on because you want to own something is fine if it doesn't effect anyone else. But not having rhe ability to compete is shitty for both the fan base and the org.

I was talking to a few Dodger fans the other day, and I hated to admit this (to them or anyone else), but I saw firsthand the transition from the Angels being a team that marquee guys were trying to get traded to to a team that guys weren't interested in coming to. And it wasn't due to money.

It isnt about faulting him for not competing with the Dodgers.. its about not knowing he could or what the situation was and acting accordingly. 
He should have known what it would take
He should have known if he was willing to do that
He should have  made differing choices if he wasnt completely aware of all those things. 
he should have sold the club last off season, he should have traded Ohtani at that same time.
He consistently made the wrong choice at every turn from a baseball perspective.
Yes i 100% can fault him for that. 
Hes the reason people dont want to come here going back to the last dodger trade fiasco.. hes looked like a monkey fucking a football ever since. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

It isnt about faulting him for not competing with the Dodgers.. its about not knowing he could or what the situation was and acting accordingly. 
He should have known what it would take
He should have known if he was willing to do that
He should have  made differing choices if he wasnt completely aware of all those things. 
he should have sold the club last off season, he should have traded Ohtani at that same time.
He consistently made the wrong choice at every turn from a baseball perspective.
Yes i 100% can fault him for that. 
Hes the reason people dont want to come here going back to the last dodger trade fiasco.. hes looked like a monkey fucking a football ever since. 

He didn't want to be known as the guy who traded Shohei.

 

Which is understandable.

 

It's hilarious to find a way to look far worse than that.

[Stradling]

Raise your hand if you thought Shohei would get $700 million?

[Angelsfan1984]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Raise your hand if you thought Shohei would get $700 million?

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

He didn't want to be known as the guy who traded Shohei.

 

Which is understandable.

 

It's hilarious to find a way to look far worse than that.

No, it isnt understandable at all, its cowardly.
ANY other plater, literally any one on the planet, in a walk year that your not sure you could sign you trade them, it happens every off season how many times?  its what should have been done with him.
Its a 30 second explanation, we werent sure we could resign him so we did what was best for the club.  Period, its over, move on. 
No one would have faulted him for it, no one. 

[Pancake Bear]

The problem is Moreno can't decide what kind of owner he wants to be and is running the team like a dude with multiple personalities. Is he a big market owner or is yacht fuel his driving passion in life? Because if you're not going to trade him, you need to at least be willing to be in the ballpark of what he got - and we now know it isn't really $700m in terms of value, it's around $450 as far as MLBPA is concerned. That is very doable, especially for a player as uniquely valuable off the field like Shohei.

My assumption is that either (or both) that Ohtani was asking for deferred money to be turned into team ownership shares upon his retirement or that Arte is not planning on owning the team in ten years. He's closer to 80 than 70 and has already run a sell-the-team trial balloon once, so I'd be shocked if he's still running the show in five years. I can't imagine that in a few years the contract will look nearly as valuable, and it may be that, like with the Dodgers, Ohtani wanted an opt out if Moreno sells or Minasian leaves. That also is potentially problematic for Moreno.

The problem is, if he knew he wasn't going to go the distance and do what whatever was necessary, he should have traded him. Basically, it seems like Arte is thinking, "Screw it, I'm not planning on owning the team in three years, so I don't give a shit about prospects - let's take one last run before Ohtani leaves. Sure, it's a long shot, but it's my best shot to win as an owner." 

It still pisses me off, but if Arte doesn't significantly reduce payroll and Minasian makes some smart acquisitions, we aren't necessarily a bad team. In fact we could end up being a surprisingly good one. At least until Trout gets injured again. 

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Raise your hand if you thought Shohei would get $700 million?

https://www.ocregister.com/2023/12/13/ohtanis-700-million-contract-a-surprise-not-to-this-journalist/

 

[Tank]

13 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Now I can't stop thinking about Perry going to Arte with a trade proposal only to have Arte stand up and say "All right stop, collaborate and listen.. Arte's back with a brand new invention"

arte just came up with an automatic dog feeding invention.

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

You know, being an eternal optimist I figured my username on this website wouldn't last long. I figured I'd change it when they stopped sucking.

 

But now...

[cals]

But it's not really $700,000,000.

Present value matters here. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 minute ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

You know, being an eternal optimist I figured my username on this website wouldn't last long. I figured I'd change it when they stopped sucking.

 

But now...

Arte is truly Billy Zane.

Amd not just in that movie. Zane sucked in everything aside from Zoolander 

[Tank]

1 hour ago, bloodbrother said:

Don't have a problem with this if the report is true tbh. Right now, the Angels simply aren't in the position to be throwing around a contract like that compared to somebody like the Dodgers. This is the type of move you make when you are already a clear cut playoff/WS contender.

agreed.

this is like me making three pars in a round of golf on a public course and thinking "i should enter Q school next month so i can earn my pga tour card." 

[Jason]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Raise your hand if you thought Shohei would get $700 million?

I didn’t think he would get $400 million considering he’s having his second TJ procedure. No guarantee that he ever pitches at a high level again. 

[Angelsfan1984]

4 minutes ago, Tank said:

agreed.

this is like me making three pars in a round of golf on a public course and thinking "i should enter Q school next month so i can earn my pga tour card." 

So...i shouldn't have done that? 

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, floplag said:

No, it isnt understandable at all, its cowardly.
ANY other plater, literally any one on the planet, in a walk year that your not sure you could sign you trade them, it happens every off season how many times?  its what should have been done with him.
Its a 30 second explanation, we werent sure we could resign him so we did what was best for the club.  Period, its over, move on. 
No one would have faulted him for it, no one. 

No

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

https://www.ocregister.com/2023/12/13/ohtanis-700-million-contract-a-surprise-not-to-this-journalist/

 

You mean the guy that predicted it before Ohtani had a 2nd TJ surgery? 

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Stradling said:

You mean the guy that predicted it before Ohtani had a 2nd TJ surgery? 

Yes.  I'm very proud of him.

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, cals said:

But it's not really $700,000,000.

Present value matters here. 

Ok, so if Arte offered him more present day value money then what?  If Arte offered him 10 years $475 million, and Ohtani turned it down does that mean Ohtani accepted less to join the Dodgers? 

[floplag]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No

Agree, dont, whatever... thats up to you, but its factual from any reasonable baseball perspective.
In recent years Stanton, Cole, Yelich, Betts, Lindor, Arenado et al... its how it works. 
None of them may be Ohtani, but it doesnt change the ideal.