Angels did not match the Dodgers offer

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Blarg said:

I hate to say but if I were the Angels owner I wouldn't have made a matching offer knowing the limitations the Angels were under with the 6 man rotation and how at a higher AAV would handcuff the GM even more. I certainly would have listened to trade offers going back as far as 2022 so Minasian had more to work with today.

So, Moreno made a bad decision based on ticket revenue and then a good one based on future value. The Dodgers have far more asset value than the Angels to make this contract work even if Ohtani isn't able to pitch effectively in 4 or 5 seasons. 

I'm fine with not matching the deal -- the vetoing stuff your baseball people want to do .. it just sucks.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

Now I can't stop thinking about Perry going to Arte with a trade proposal only to have Arte stand up and say "All right stop, collaborate and listen.. Arte's back with a brand new invention"

Will it ever stop?

 

I dint know.

 

All I know is the Dodgers just signed Sho 

 

They took our rice rice, baby

 

[Blarg]

29 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'm fine with not matching the deal -- the vetoing stuff your baseball people want to do .. it just sucks.

Owner has veto rights but a strong baseball operations staff, not a bunch of ASU frat boys, would have been able to beat some sense into him.

And the time to talk to Baleo about a contract was winter of 2021 to take the Dodgers and MLB out of the negotiations. If the Angels come in with a strong offer there is no $700 million dollar contract because there is only 1 MVP season on his resume.

10 years at $450+ million with an opt out would have been ink to paper but Moreno couldn't see there was no re-signing once Ohtani was a year out from free agency. The GM shuffle fucked the organization as much as anything. No continuity in the front office gave Ohtani no confidence this franchise would ever stabilize. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Owner has veto rights but a strong baseball operations staff, not a bunch of ASU frat boys, would have been able to beat some sense into him.

And the time to talk to Baleo about a contract was winter of 2021 to take the Dodgers and MLB out of the negotiations. If the Angels come in with a strong offer there is no $700 million dollar contract because there is only 1 MVP season on his resume.

10 years at $450+ million with an opt out would have been ink to paper but Moreno couldn't see there was no re-signing once Ohtani was a year out from free agency. But the GM shuffle fucked the organization as much as anything. No continuity in the front office gave Ohtani no confidence this franchise would ever stabilize. 

This is so nail on head.

We could have gone full bore and extended Ohtani in the winter of 21. It would have been risky but worth it.

If we're being honest, they really should have came at him in the winter of 19/20. After 2 years of at least proving he was at worst a bona-fide 20 Home run a year guy at the MLB level.

To regurgitate the same thing I mentioned in other threads,  Arte was more than willing to throw money at guys that played great for other teams. He should have paid Ohtani. 

He threw 40 mill at Cozart after one big year. 

He should have gone all in on Shohei at the bare minimum 2 years ago. 

[cals]

We all have to remember how deferred money works and how much that money is expected to be worth in X amount of years.

Because of inflation, which despite its high growth the last couple years, has been about 3% a year.

So ultimately his deal will cost about 450,000,000 in today’s money, is what I’m reading.

And an economist or accountant here can clarify this but as such, Moreno could have put a decent amount into an interest bearing account that would guarantee that it wouldn’t cost more than the 450,000,000, despite future economic changes.

That said, I ultimately think AIDS Magic and the rest of the Dogs group plan is to offer him an ownership stake to buy out the massive rest of the contract when he’s done.  Or not.  Who knows.

[Chico]

 

[Angelsfan1984]

7 hours ago, Blarg said:

The Dodgers received the same medical reports and figured they could take the risk end knowing the reward. 

Clearly the angels have the best doctors…

[notherhalo]

First time Arte did something right

[Blarg]

39 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Clearly the angels have the best doctors…

Ohtani's surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache is Head Team Physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Los Angeles Rams.

[Chuck]

30 minutes ago, notherhalo said:

First time Arte did something right

I totally agree on not matching that price tag for Ohtani, but he should have had enough sense to trade him last year or prior to the deadline and took his shot in FA with Ohtani later.

So dumb. I’ve repeated this hundred times on our podcast this year that a meeting with Nez and Ohtani had to be made where an extension HAD TO BE AGREED UPON prior to the deadline or they were going to test the trade market with Ohtani as that is in the best interest of the team going forward. 

[Stradling]

I have no issue with him not going to $700 million.  Arte was never going to have that much deferred money that would impact the sale price of the club.  A new owner is 3-5 years will look at that $680 million as debt.  Even if that deferred amount equals $435 million in today’s dollars, what owner looks at that and wants the last 5-7 years of Ohtani, and pay him 95% of his 10 year contract.  They had to sign him to an extension after last year.  I know @Blarg mentioned offering him a 10 year $450 after 2021, but that would have been silly at the time because he was coming off of his only great year.  He was literally one year removed from not pitching for 2 years and a season where he had a 79 OPS+.  Like everyone has said, the real kicker is not trading him in 2022, because in 2023, when you are that close, you basically have to try to make the playoffs at the deadline.

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Chico said:

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

Even if the Doyyers got good medicals back, it’s only been 3 months since the surgery (second one).   

Considering that very few have come back from the 2nd surgery, there is big time risk.

If he ends up not being able to pitch like he used to, what does that do to the revenue he generates as a once every 100 years player?

And Strad made a good point regarding Arte and deferred money.   If he sells the team, what prospective owner wouldn’t shudder at paying that deferred money for a guy who may not be pitching much at some point?

[Angelsjunky]

Translation: "We gave the Angels the opportunity to drive the Dodgers' price up even further."

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Translation: "We gave the Angels the opportunity to drive the Dodgers' price up even further."

Probably. 

[Blarg]

9 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Isn't their team Dr the guy that performed his surgery? 

Dr. Neal ElAttrache is Head Team Physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Los Angeles Rams. 

[ettin]

10 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Now I can't stop thinking about Perry going to Arte with a trade proposal only to have Arte stand up and say "All right stop, collaborate and listen.. Arte's back with a brand new invention"

Ohtani, continuing the lyrics:

"Money grabs a hold of me tightly
Flow like $700 million daily and nightly
Will it ever stop?
Yo, I don't know
Advance 20 years and I'll know
To the extreme I rock deferred money like a vandal
Light up a Dodger stage and wax Arte like a candle"

[ettin]

10 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Now I can't stop thinking about Perry going to Arte with a trade proposal only to have Arte stand up and say "All right stop, collaborate and listen.. Arte's back with a brand new invention"

You constantly inspire me, IP...

[yk9001]

9 hours ago, cals said:

We all have to remember how deferred money works and how much that money is expected to be worth in X amount of years.

Because of inflation, which despite its high growth the last couple years, has been about 3% a year.

So ultimately his deal will cost about 450,000,000 in today’s money, is what I’m reading.

And an economist or accountant here can clarify this but as such, Moreno could have put a decent amount into an interest bearing account that would guarantee that it wouldn’t cost more than the 450,000,000, despite future economic changes.

That said, I ultimately think AIDS Magic and the rest of the Dogs group plan is to offer him an ownership stake to buy out the massive rest of the contract when he’s done.  Or not.  Who knows.

20 year treasuries have a 4.22% YTM; they were 4.68% a couple weeks ago.

[Jason]

30 minutes ago, ettin said:

Ohtani, continuing the lyrics:

"Money grabs a hold of me tightly
Flow like $700 million daily and nightly
Will it ever stop?
Yo, I don't know
Advance 20 years and I'll know
To the extreme I rock deferred money like a vandal
Light up a Dodger stage and wax Arte like a candle"

Word to your mother 

[Inside Pitch]

36 minutes ago, ettin said:

Ohtani, continuing the lyrics:

"Money grabs a hold of me tightly
Flow like $700 million daily and nightly
Will it ever stop?
Yo, I don't know
Advance 20 years and I'll know
To the extreme I rock deferred money like a vandal
Light up a Dodger stage and wax Arte like a candle"

Lock the thread..  It's reached it's zenith.

[Oldtimer]

Pujols, Wells, Hamilton, Rondon all got paid.  Sure, it makes perfect sense not to pay MLB's most dominant player.  Moreno should sell the team to someone who might have a brain about how to win.  

[Stradling]

Somewhere David Bowie is both sad and proud at the same time. 

[Angelsfan1984]

3 hours ago, Blarg said:

Ohtani's surgeon Dr. Neal ElAttrache is Head Team Physician for the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Los Angeles Rams.

Dr. Re-attache

[Lhalo]

48 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Somewhere David Bowie is both sad and proud at the same time. 

Along with Freddie Mercury.