Rest of the offseason, post Shohei.

[Blarg]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Now that we saw what Ohtani got paid, it really makes Yellich contract seem ok. I am willing to bet Belinger is going to get $200 million.  Snell is going to get $175-200 million.  

The Angels have 4 outfielders, two cost controlled. Why go older in the outfield for more money when pitching is going to be their weakness?

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

Question is, why have they struggled with relief pitching, while other teams find success?

Well, they didn't used to. Maybe to some extent it goes in cycles and there's a lot of luck involved, or maybe they just haven't practiced in-depth scouting, beyond what you and I are capable of: "Loup and Tepera were great in 2021 - let's grab them."

Stats like ERA are even more volatile with relievers. You really have to look at peripherals and other underlying numbers.

 

[Dgar24]

I see so many wanting to go dh first, what about Rendon at Dh keep him in the lineup.

go with Chapmen at 3rd. Give us gold glove defense still hits 25 hrs.give or take. Rendon can back up the corners.

[Angelsjunky]

Or to put it another way, signing a DH-only guy like Martinez or Pederson will be a good sign that Perry Minasian doesn't know what he's doing.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Angelsjunky

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

The Angels have 4 outfielders, two cost controlled. Why go older in the outfield for more money when pitching is going to be their weakness?

Because in my trade scenario you also get Burnes and because of the size of Yellich’s contract it brings down the actual cost to get Burnes. This also allows you to trade one of the three outfielders to get another pitcher. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Dgar24 said:

I see so many wanting to go dh first, what about Rendon at Dh keep him in the lineup.

go with Chapmen at 3rd. Give us gold glove defense still hits 25 hrs.give or take. Rendon can back up the corners.

Yep, I mentioned Chapman as a pivot.  I still think it is more likely you see a Justin Turner type rather than Chapman.

[Warfarin]

45 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Joc is no longer a competent  outfielder 

Not particularly, no, but he could conceivably be mainly a DH who starts a handful of games in LF (i.e. like 15-20?) as needed to rotate some others through the DH spot to give them a day off.

He can probably be hidden in LF for a chunk of the game, then replaced by a defensive replacement in the later innings under those circumstances.

He's still a very good bat against RHH, and this team is going to need more lineup balance moving forward.  He also likely won't require much of a commitment, either.

[Stradling]

What will be the first move the Angels make?  I am thinking the first move is a move they could have made while Ohtani was still in question, someone like Flaherty or Hicks, maybe a re-signing of Urshela.  I would say Snell or Bellinger, but they are both Boras clients and I think now that Ohtani has been signed he will drag these signings out, and get teams that aren’t in the mix anymore to drive up the prices.  

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

What will be the first move the Angels make?  I am thinking the first move is a move they could have made while Ohtani was still in question, someone like Flaherty or Hicks, maybe a re-signing of Urshela.  I would say Snell or Bellinger, but they are both Boras clients and I think now that Ohtani has been signed he will drag these signings out, and get teams that aren’t in the mix anymore to drive up the prices.  

I think you are right in that it'll be dragged out.  With Snell, he'll probably wait until after Yamamoto is off the board, since Yamamoto has a distinct timeline, and he'll pit the losers of that battle against each other as the SP market dries up.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

57 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Well, they didn't used to. Maybe to some extent it goes in cycles and there's a lot of luck involved, or maybe they just haven't practiced in-depth scouting, beyond what you and I are capable of: "Loup and Tepera were great in 2021 - let's grab them."

Stats like ERA are even more volatile with relievers. You really have to look at peripherals and other underlying numbers.

 

And use.

[Angels 1961]

Shock all of baseball sign Bauer and Julio Urias

[tdawg87]

We should sign Judge Wapner.

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Because in my trade scenario you also get Burnes and because of the size of Yellich’s contract it brings down the actual cost to get Burnes. This also allows you to trade one of the three outfielders to get another pitcher. 

But we don't need an aging outfielder for another 6 years to get a pitcher for one year and he jumps to free agency. It's a dumb trade.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

But we don't need an aging outfielder for another 6 years to get a pitcher for one year and he jumps to free agency. It's a dumb trade.

You keep believing that. We need an ace and we need a left handed bat. We don’t have a ton of prospect capital to get that ace. I prefer Burnes to Snell. I prefer Yelich over Bellinger based on the contracts. 

[Tank]

sign JD martinez and trevor bauer. 

get whatever pitching help they can afford, and not just the cheap ones.

[ShotimeDynasty]

4 hours ago, Warfarin said:

With Ohtani gone now, and given the declarations of the FO that they intend to compete and not rebuild - what moves do you make from here to cobble together a decent team?

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/angels 

Looking at the above, if you assume Arte will spend close to the threshold (no guarantees of that), that would mean we have ~65mil or so to spend in AAV this offseason, which is more than enough to secure a top SP, a top reliever, and some hitters to help mitigate the loss of Ohtani.

Sign Blake Snell 7/$196M ($28)

Sign Jordan Hicks 4/$40M ($10)

Sign Matt Moore 2/$18M ($9)

Trade Patrick Sandoval+ ($5M) for Tyler Glasnow ($25M) or Corbin Burnes ($15M) ($10-$20)

 

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You keep believing that. We need an ace and we need a left handed bat. We don’t have a ton of prospect capital to get that ace. I prefer Burnes to Snell. I prefer Yelich over Bellinger based on the contracts. 

It's for one fucking year! You fuck the payroll for 5 for one year. It's stupid, stupid, stupid, the Angels are not one pitcher from world series contention. This team doesn't need Bellinger either because they have a full outfield, a cost controlled 1st baseman and no need for a DH since Rendon probably is spending a third of the season there.

You have the typical name brand name fixation, like Moreno, where you can't see how little that money moves the needle compared to developing what they have and keeping long term payroll flexibility.

Burnes is a rental.

You might as well sign Bauer for that one year and if mid-season the team is tanking again you flip him for propects but you don't have Yellich or Bellinger clogging up payroll. Cheaper with the same results. 

[mmc]

Just now, Blarg said:

It's for one fucking year! You fuck the payroll for 5 for one year. It's stupid, stupid, stupid, the Angels are not one pitcher from world series contention. This team doesn't need Bellinger either because they have a full outfield, a cost controlled 1st baseman and no need for a DH since Rendon probably is spending a third of the season there.

You have the typical name brand name fixation, like Moreno, where you can't see how little that money moves the needle compared to developing what they have and keeping long term payroll flexibility.

Burnes is a rental.

You might as well sign Bauer for that one year and if mid-season the team is tanking again you flip him for propects but you don't have Yellich or Bellinger clogging up payroll. Cheaper with the same results. 

Not to mention there’s absolutely zero indication the Brewers are motivated to make such a move

[Chico]

Thanks for the payroll link. I know it's obvious but the numbers jump out at me that the Angels' fundamental structure is extremely top-heavy.  Trout (12yr x 426m) and Rendon (7yr x 245m) are now top dogs and the third highest paid Halo so far is Tyler Anderson (3yr x 39m) and the fourth is Brandon Drury (2yr x 17m). See the extreme disparity? And to add insult to injury, Trout and Rendon have hardly played the last three years and who knows going forward?

It's been this way almost the entire Moreno regime and it's not a successful model obviously. Moreno just doesn't get it.

[mmc]

 

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, Blarg said:

It's for one fucking year! You fuck the payroll for 5 for one year. It's stupid, stupid, stupid, the Angels are not one pitcher from world series contention. This team doesn't need Bellinger either because they have a full outfield, a cost controlled 1st baseman and no need for a DH since Rendon probably is spending a third of the season there.

You have the typical name brand name fixation, like Moreno, where you can't see how little that money moves the needle compared to developing what they have and keeping long term payroll flexibility.

Burnes is a rental.

You might as well sign Bauer for that one year and if mid-season the team is tanking again you flip him for propects but you don't have Yellich or Bellinger clogging up payroll. Cheaper with the same results. 

Yea I was assuming they’d sign the guy who openly talks about growing up an Angel fan to an extension. The payroll will be screwed up more with the long term deals that very well could be coming.  

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

The only way you trade for Burnes is if he agrees to an extension. You don’t trade for a one year rental when you’re a team in our position. 

[Angels 1961]

Take a gamble on Brandon Woodruff 2 to 3 years. Look to 2025 to spend. 

[UndertheHalo]

The Angels have to do something about Rendon and 3B.  He just cannot be relied on.  So it makes sense to me that you pivot to Chapman.  To help marginally contribute to replacing the thunder you’re losing from Ohtani and also to deal with the Rendon disaster.  He still plays great defense as far as I know.  
 

id also like to see them go after Montgomery and Lorenzen and bullpen help.  I hope Arte sits for a better marquee guys.  Bellinger is gonna get way too much money for all of the red flags that come with him.  He reminds me of Javy Baez….kind of.  Fuck that.  I also think that snell is going to get way to much money for a guy that has never demonstrated an ability to go deep in games.  Giving pitchers huge contracts is risky anyway.  For a guy that doesn’t go deep, no thanks.  
 

we just have to hope the young guys develop and wait for a deeper free agent class otherwise. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[Angels 1961]

Chapman great value on defensive side. Going to be 31 and low BA and only 17 HR last season. Do not want to give him a 4- or 5-year deal.