Angels Managerial Search Thread

[Halo in Chicago]

7 hours ago, DMVol said:

How does catching the last out in 2002 qualify you in any way to be a big league manager?

It’s a feel good moment that goes away the first time he mismanages a lead in April/May… 

I liked him as a player, would be fine w him as a manager if he brings a good pitching coach and someone who can make good decisions about when to send the guy from third. 
 

I would also be fine w a guy w zero ties to the Angels if they are a good fit. 

[Angels 1961]

Erstad Makes the Catch remember it like it was last week.

[REDneck]

I hear that there is a woman available.

[NYC Angel Fan]

On 10/12/2023 at 3:52 PM, CaliAngel said:

This appears to be a picture of Milton Nascimento, the Brazilian musician. What is your point?

[NYC Angel Fan]

On 10/12/2023 at 8:54 PM, Blarg said:

The Angels had so much luck with coke addicts from Texas, Washington should be first on the list. 

 

Did you cite Phil Nevin’s suspected PED use when he was hired or retained last year? (See, for example, https://goodmenproject.com/sports/all-steroids-team-phil-nevin/)

Something like 40% of the league was thought to be using coke when Rom Washington played.

Why the double standard?
 

And is that really the extent of your argument against him?

You’d rather have a guy who’s won a single playoff series and less playoff games in 3x as many years managing (where he continues to fail upwards)?

Ron Washington is beloved by players and considered a character guy wherever he goes— including in Atlanta right now. And his managerial track record is way better than the other candidates out there.

 

[NYC Angel Fan]

23 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Being a previous player helps convince players that the person is qualified and capable of doing the manager’s job.

With Showalter, all of the players in mlb today grew up seeing Showalter actually in mlb dugouts managing, with plenty of success.

He doesn’t have to convince them he is qualified to get the job or that he is capable of doing the job.  They have seen him do it.

What success? He’s got a .509 winning percentage and won 1 playoff series in 20+ years. That’s an achievement— but not the good kind.

[NYC Angel Fan]

20 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

i would be ok with Erstad. He could relate to younger players since he coached at Nebraska. He caught last out in 2002.

Around the time he started at Nebraska, I was hoping for that. But now he has more of a track record as a (college) manager. It wasn’t particularly distinguished.

[Dtwncbad]

2 hours ago, NYC Angel Fan said:

What success? He’s got a .509 winning percentage and won 1 playoff series in 20+ years. That’s an achievement— but not the good kind.

You don’t manage 20 years if you stink at it.  Bad teams (under .500) also often have good managers.

 

[NYC Angel Fan]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

You don’t manage 20 years if you stink at it.  Bad teams (under .500) also often have good managers.

 

How does someone disprove that first sentence?  Maybe because 3 of the 4 team’s successors to him won/reached a World Series? And we’re talking about the mid-90s Yankees and the Johnson-Schilling D-backs here with high payrolls. (The Mets also have had a pretty decent payroll recently.)

Admittedly, he did an ok job with the Orioles, though they underachieved in the playoffs. (I should apologize, by the way: Showalter also won a wildcard game in his career, so I should count that too. )

But it amazes me how many chances he gets after his teams underachieved so often.

He has four 90+ win seasons, 1 Playoff series win and a wildcard win in 22 seasons. Compare that with Ron Washington, who has the same number of 90+ win seasons and made two World Series in just over a third of that time.

Buck Showalter looks and sounds like a good manager but his track record is underwhelming and the ceiling is low. Ron Washington, while not perfect, has the better track record and better upside, in my view. 

 

[DMVol]

14 minutes ago, NYC Angel Fan said:

How does someone disprove that first sentence?  Maybe because 3 of the 4 team’s successors to him won/reached a World Series? And we’re talking about the mid-90s Yankees and the Johnson-Schilling D-backs here with high payrolls. (The Mets also have had a pretty decent payroll recently.)

Admittedly, he did an ok job with the Orioles, though they underachieved in the playoffs. (I should apologize, by the way: Showalter also won a wildcard game in his career, so I should count that too. )

But it amazes me how many chances he gets after his teams underachieved so often.

He has four 90+ win seasons, 1 Playoff series win and a wildcard win in 22 seasons. Compare that with Ron Washington, who has the same number of 90+ win seasons and made two World Series in just over a third of that time.

Buck Showalter looks and sounds like a good manager but his track record is underwhelming and the ceiling is low. Ron Washington, while not perfect, has the better track record and better upside, in my view. 

 

Washington managed in one place and he had a lot of talent in Texas. Showalter took over some rough situations—-Arizona was an expansion team, they improved quicker under him than any expansion team, Texas had been bad when he took over and Baltimore was terrible…..he won in all those places…..

[NYC Angel Fan]

Showalter had a lot of talent in Texas (A-Rod, Soriano, Texeira, etc) and Arizona (Schilling, Randy Johnson, Luis Gonzalez, Tony Womack, Stottlemyre, prime Steve Finley,etc) too. We won’t even mention the Yankees, who went on to build a dynasty once they were free of Showalter.

 

I mean if Ron Washington‘s achievements were due to talent, then Showalter’s were too. The difference: Washington, Bob Brenly and Joe Torre could win in the playoffs with it. Showalter could not and will not.

It is a joke to see mediocre managers get recycled and no 2nd shot for Ron Washington.

[Dtwncbad]

3 hours ago, NYC Angel Fan said:

How does someone disprove that first sentence?

For 20 years owners, presidents of baseball operations and GMs thought he  was doing a good enough job to keep him in the job, and they are there seeing all the inside stuff first hand.

Yeah, you would have to prove he wasn’t a good manager against that.  Don’t complain that this is hard to do.

Seems like you really would like Washington to get another shot.  That’s fine.  But trying to convince everyone that Showalter was a bad manager for 20 years probably isn’t the way to prove Washington should get a shot.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Dtwncbad

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

You don’t manage 20 years if you stink at it.  Bad teams (under .500) also often have good managers.

 

Dick Williams with the Halos from 1974-1976 is exhibit A.   Won everywhere else.

[Angel Oracle]

Main concerns with Ron Washington are being age 72 in 2024 and hasn’t managed for almost a decade.

Showalter is 4 years younger.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[Swordsman78]

On 10/14/2023 at 9:54 AM, BTH said:

I got the threads confused. My bad.

Thought I was responding to the other thread about free agency.

In terms of Erstad, I do think he’s a popular name among fans. That doesn’t really translate to increased attendance, but it probably garners better fan reaction than other candidates would.

OK so now that Ohtani may be gone, you are suggesting to hire a manager based on ability to put "butts in seats?".

[BTH]

5 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

OK so now that Ohtani may be gone, you are suggesting to hire a manager based on ability to put "butts in seats?".

I’m not suggesting it.

I’m simply saying a manager that is popular among fans probably appeals to Arte.

[Swordsman78]

4 minutes ago, BTH said:

I’m not suggesting it.

I’m simply saying a manager that is popular among fans probably appeals to Arte.

Can you cite any evidence of that?

[Blarg]

Nevin was really only popular with one fan. 

[Angels 1961]

I would say 80% or higher of people going to Angel games last year do not know who Darin Erstad is.

[Angels 1961]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Nevin was really only popular with one fan. 

I liked Nevin and after next year's team is 20 games under 500 fans will want a new manager.

[Swordsman78]

Face it.  Perry had no plan "B".

Fires Nevin and now these are his top 3 candidates.

[BTH]

19 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Can you cite any evidence of that?

No, because it’s an opinion.

Not something I’m attempting to pass on as a fact.

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Face it.  Perry had no plan "B".

Fires Nevin and now these are his top 3 candidates.

Plan B?  No that’s exactly what Perry had when he decided he regretted getting involved with Nevin and didn’t didn’t want to carry him any longer.

 

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, Swordsman78 said:

Face it.  Perry had no plan "B".

Fires Nevin and now these are his top 3 candidates.

First off, Nevin was a plan B then C when Moreno put the team up for sale then bailed out. He was never supposed to be more than an interim when they fired Joe Madman. But Moreno tied Minasian's hand both for roster and a new manager. 

You are still the kid with the dunce hat in the corner not understanding why you are there. 

[Swordsman78]

4 minutes ago, BTH said:

No, because it’s an opinion.

Not something I’m attempting to pass on as a fact.

Oh OK..... thought you had some tangible reference to back up your post, for a change.  Guess not.