OC Register: Mike Trout expects to ‘have conversations’ with Angels management about the organization’s future

[aznhockeyguy]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

Halos would have to pay more than 40% of his salary. Remember, another team is trading for a big name player that rarely ever plays. No way they are willing to pay big money for a name alone. 

With the Angels taking back Schwarber, 40% will probably be enough.  While Schwarber is a plus bat, he's so terrible with the glove that it negates his value.  Even though Trout was in a down year this season, he was still on pace for about 4-5 WAR which is still All-Star caliber.  Basically getting Trout for free for the first 2 seasons by trading away Schwarber and with the remaining 5 years at ~25 million after retaining 40%, might be palatable for a big spending team like the Phillies. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

4 hours ago, fan_since79 said:

Also, we have no idea when, or if, Rendon will take the field again. Is "internal bleeding" permanent? Is that it for him?

Women seem to do ok with it, though their track record in athletics isn't very good.

[aznhockeyguy]

5 hours ago, DMVol said:

“If Trout does request a trade” is the key…..If he asks, it’ll be privately in a way that doesn’t embarrass the club….If he asks, Arte will surely feel obligated to honor the request, if he can…he’s been loyal and a good soldier, if he wants out, they’ll try to accommodate him….doesn’t mean it would be easy to do, it won’t…..but the key is does Trout ask? I think he might….he can see how long the road back will be….

Of course the situation hinges on whether or not Trout asks out.  While I would want him to stay with the Angels, it's going to be an Ernie Banks situation where an all time great will never sniff the World Series.  Trout has continually said he loves it here as it's a very laid back environment, which jives with his personality.  However, after the taste of the WBC, he would probably want to start competing for championships, and the only way to do that is by asking out. 

[Slegnaac]

14 hours ago, ELEVEN said:

Reading this you would expect to hear a banjo breakdown next, but with this team it could segue into Deliverance.

 

[HBAngel13]

Unfortunately the true benefit of moving Trout is not what comes in return, but in getting out from under yrs 4-7 of his deal.  It would be nice to get something back, but perhaps a volume deal of depth-type prospects would be best anyway considering the current state of the farm system. 

“Should” they look to move Mike, taking back someone like Schwarber is the right idea. If they do attempt a 2-3 year retool, they should take as much short term “bad” money back as possible to get some prospect value. It might take a three team deal to really maximize that.  Dodgers really did this well for a couple years.  I would like to see them make a concerted effort to have no dead money contracts outside of the last year of Rendon by 2026  

I absolutely love Trout, but based on what we have seen the last few seasons, it’s a diminishing probability that he is still a difference maker come 2026.  He just can’t stay on the field consistently enough.  If he was willing to take a chunk of DH at bats maybe that would help?  It might by a win/win for player and team if he got moved to Philly, but an “L” for Angel fans for sure.  

Hate to say it, but this organization needs to rip the bandaid off, so true healing can start.  It will be tough for the team to bottom out with Trouts deal on the books.  

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, HBAngel13 said:

“Should” they look to move Mike, taking back someone like Schwarber is the right idea. If they do attempt a 2-3 year retool, they should take as much short term “bad” money back as possible to get some prospect value. It might take a three team deal to really maximize that.  Dodgers really did this well for a couple years.  I would like to see them make a concerted effort to have no dead money contracts outside of the last year of Rendon by 2026  

Exactly this. 

It's the kind of deal that doesn't seem likely or has bad optics now, but a couple years from now could look real shrewd and good for all parties. 

I say this still hoping Trout wants to be here and still thinking he has above-average years ahead on his deal.

[Angels 1961]

If Trout stays, make him player manager.

[Tank]

13 hours ago, DMVol said:

“If Trout does request a trade” is the key…..If he asks, it’ll be privately in a way that doesn’t embarrass the club….If he asks, Arte will surely feel obligated to honor the request, if he can…he’s been loyal and a good soldier, if he wants out, they’ll try to accommodate him….doesn’t mean it would be easy to do, it won’t…..but the key is does Trout ask? I think he might….he can see how long the road back will be….

if ohtani leaves, then that's when it's time to have this conversation.

[totdprods]

13 hours ago, DMVol said:

“If Trout does request a trade” is the key…..If he asks, it’ll be privately in a way that doesn’t embarrass the club….If he asks, Arte will surely feel obligated to honor the request, if he can…he’s been loyal and a good soldier, if he wants out, they’ll try to accommodate him….doesn’t mean it would be easy to do, it won’t…..but the key is does Trout ask? I think he might….he can see how long the road back will be….

He also needs to recognize that he’s been a part of these struggles the last few years. He’s starting to match up with Rendon in number of games played in recent seasons.

That’s the biggest reason why I think it may be a little premature to assume he’s gonna ask for a trade. And I don’t think he wants his legacy to be leaving when Shohei likely walks and him splitting. 

Truth is, the Angels still really need Trout.

[Angels 1961]

Should be a short conversation. Trout walks in and says "GET ME OUT OF HERE"

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

He also needs to recognize that he’s been a part of these struggles the last few years. He’s starting to match up with Rendon in number of games played in recent seasons.

That’s the biggest reason why I think it may be a little premature to assume he’s gonna ask for a trade. And I don’t think he wants his legacy to be leaving when Shohei likely walks and him splitting. 

Truth is, the Angels still really need Trout.

Exactly 

Uhh Mike, it starts with you no longer only playing partial seasons!

THAT NEEDS TO STOP!

Otherwise, you become Rendon’t without the attitude issue and with more pop!    Maybe not even a top 40 player in MLB!!!!

Sorry, but playing only 290 of past 523 games since 2020 just doesn’t cut it anymore.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[Angel Oracle]

And the trade talk needs to stop.

No team is going to take on $252 million for a guy that barely plays over half his games anymore.

[Angels 1961]

9 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

And the trade talk needs to stop.

No team is going to take on $252 million for a guy that barely plays over half his games anymore.

Teams would just depending how much money halos pitch in. Angels chip in 75 to 100 mill teams would trade for him.

[Angelsfan1984]

10 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

And the trade talk needs to stop.

No team is going to take on $252 million for a guy that barely plays over half his games anymore.

[totdprods]

11 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

And the trade talk needs to stop.

No team is going to take on $252 million for a guy that barely plays over half his games anymore.

Hector Olivera was set to be paid nearly $100m for 100 plate appearances and was traded twice despite while also having a domestic abuse charge in the mix. Not sure where the final pay landed but he’s an example of how money can still be moved.

Anyone can be traded, just a matter of them figuring out how to make the money work.

Still don’t think he will be traded now or will ask for a trade either though.

Edited September 4, 2023 by totdprods

[SoCalDucksFan]

The current owner is not going to trade Mr. Trout.  Certainly not on the heels of losing Ohtani for nothing.  There's simply no way he'll eat a sizable portion of his contract, which is at the very least, what it would take for other teams to be interested.

Now if ownership were to change, all bets are off.  A new owner, already having paid 2.5+ Billion to purchase the franchise, would not think twice about tossing away the amount of money necessary to move Mr. Trout.  Especially if they decided to tear things down and start from scratch.

But it seems extremely unlikely, that when Trout becomes the face of the franchise again, with Shohei gone, that the Angels are going to want him gone as well.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

On 9/2/2023 at 5:03 PM, AngelStew43 said:

IMO, this stinks of 2001.  75-87 in 2001.  99-63 in 2002, with only cosmetic changes.  

We have Trout.  We've added Neto, Schanuel, and O'hoppe, who are gaining experience.

The Angels will need to add two starters, to replace Ohtani.  Not because he's leaving, but because he won't be able to pitch for anyone until 2025.  

As for the complimentary players, I expect Drury and Moose to return, along with Moniak, Ward, and Adell. 

Like I said, there are some similarities between 2001 and 2023, I didn't think that one team could have so much go wrong, but this one did.

And I didn't even include Rendon in the picture.  If, by some miracle, we get anything out of him, it would have to count as a positive, right?

There is absolutely nothing similar other than possible W's/L's of the 2001 team! And there sure isn't anything similar to the 2002 team!

1. This Rotation does not get to the 5th/6th inning consistently. This rotation in the entirety can't even get out of an inning 12 pitches or less. This Rotation at this time does not get ahead in the count consistently. This rotation does not have a consistent command of the strike zone as a group.

This becomes Organizational Pitching Philosophy.

2. This team does not have a shut down bullpen. Also, the bullpen roles are non-defined (exception Estevez other than 1 or 2 times). Nevin literally blew through Webb, Davinski. In a 1/5th of a season each. Each were overworked during their time in the situation. Which also exposed them ability wise and to injury.

This moves to Organizational Pitching Philosophy and bullpen usage.

3. None of these players exception Trout, Ohtani has put up consistent #'s annually as Salmon, Anderson, even Erstad etc all. Most of those players were professional hitters that knew how to put the ball in play and move runners. Situational hitting. Even Speizio & Fullmer were smart and understood their roles and how to perform in certain game time situations. Similar to Moose and who? The 2002 team was balanced with all 5 tools required to be successful and the organizational philosophy and coaching staff worked within it. Team speed was also effective and became more effective once Figgy got here in Sept.

This moves to Organizational Hitting Philosophy and building of a roster.

4. The catchers were smart, understood the game; sequencing, and their pitching staffs ability. The Molina's and Fabergas knew how to change eye levels and were an intricate part of the game how many times did you see Bengie coaching his pitchers? Bengie threw out 45%, Jose threw out 38%, even Fabergas threw out 22%. (Thaiss 17%, Wallach 28%, O'Hoppe sample size 13%). With the rule changes on pickoffs your catchers need to be able to throw paramount. And need to be able to receive the pitch and get rid of it. Yes, things have changed. But, there isn't enough consistency of leadership back there. Even Stassi & Suzuki though were leaders back there. Their throwing abilities weren't there either Stassi 21% and Suzuki 17%.

OTHER FACTORS: Pitchers holding base runners. Young pitchers who are not consistent within the strike zone. Or, confident in the entirety of their game.

Conclusion: The voice isn't consistent. As portions of Philosophy and portions of the Analytics don't blend into a cohesive team.

You can say this is the Angels "Way to Play the Game".  But, everything together, doesn't blend together and it looks on the field like a fire drill. 

 

[gurn67]

No matter how he plays in the future, he will always be beloved and treated respectfully by the Angels' fans. That isn't always the case when you go elsewhere. Especially a place like Philly, or New York. They'll turn on him real quick if his career path keeps trending the way it has injury wise. I can't imagine him EVER being booed in Anaheim because of his play.

[cals]

On 9/3/2023 at 12:12 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

Women seem to do ok with it, though their track record in athletics isn't very good.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

There is absolutely nothing similar other than possible W's/L's of the 2001 team! And there sure isn't anything similar to the 2002 team!

1. This Rotation does not get to the 5th/6th inning consistently. This rotation in the entirety can't even get out of an inning 12 pitches or less. This Rotation at this time does not get ahead in the count consistently. This rotation does not have a consistent command of the strike zone as a group.

This becomes Organizational Pitching Philosophy.

2. This team does not have a shut down bullpen. Also, the bullpen roles are non-defined (exception Estevez other than 1 or 2 times). Nevin literally blew through Webb, Davinski. In a 1/5th of a season each. Each were overworked during their time in the situation. Which also exposed them ability wise and to injury.

This moves to Organizational Pitching Philosophy and bullpen usage.

3. None of these players exception Trout, Ohtani has put up consistent #'s annually as Salmon, Anderson, even Erstad etc all. Most of those players were professional hitters that knew how to put the ball in play and move runners. Situational hitting. Even Speizio & Fullmer were smart and understood their roles and how to perform in certain game time situations. Similar to Moose and who? The 2002 team was balanced with all 5 tools required to be successful and the organizational philosophy and coaching staff worked within it. Team speed was also effective and became more effective once Figgy got here in Sept.

This moves to Organizational Hitting Philosophy and building of a roster.

4. The catchers were smart, understood the game; sequencing, and their pitching staffs ability. The Molina's and Fabergas knew how to change eye levels and were an intricate part of the game how many times did you see Bengie coaching his pitchers? Bengie threw out 45%, Jose threw out 38%, even Fabergas threw out 22%. (Thaiss 17%, Wallach 28%, O'Hoppe sample size 13%). With the rule changes on pickoffs your catchers need to be able to throw paramount. And need to be able to receive the pitch and get rid of it. Yes, things have changed. But, there isn't enough consistency of leadership back there. Even Stassi & Suzuki though were leaders back there. Their throwing abilities weren't there either Stassi 21% and Suzuki 17%.

OTHER FACTORS: Pitchers holding base runners. Young pitchers who are consistent within the strike zone. Or, confident in the entirety of their game.

Conclusion: The voice isn't consistent. As portions of Philosophy and portions of the Analytics don't blend into a cohesive team.

You can say this is the Angels "Way to Play the Game".  But, everything together, doesn't blend together and it looks on the field like a fire drill. 

 

This points to cleaning house with a new manager and coaches.

Get the FO and the bench totally on the same page!

[greginpsca]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

This points to cleaning house with a new manager and coaches.

Get the FO and the bench totally on the same page!

New development strategy while they are at it.

[Swordsman78]

4 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

This points to cleaning house with a new manager and coaches.

Get the FO and the bench totally on the same page!

They are on the same page....the front office page.

[gurn67]

I was really surprised by this. I expected a much greater disparity. I went back to 2016 since that was the beginning of his injury woes.

Angels record with Trout 320-358 (.472)

Angels record w/o Trout 152-178 (.461)

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 9/3/2023 at 12:12 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

Women seem to do ok with it, though their track record in athletics isn't very good.

 

[Blarg]

On 9/3/2023 at 12:11 PM, aznhockeyguy said:

With the Angels taking back Schwarber, 40% will probably be enough.  While Schwarber is a plus bat, he's so terrible with the glove that it negates his value.  Even though Trout was in a down year this season, he was still on pace for about 4-5 WAR which is still All-Star caliber.  Basically getting Trout for free for the first 2 seasons by trading away Schwarber and with the remaining 5 years at ~25 million after retaining 40%, might be palatable for a big spending team like the Phillies. 

Possibly the most Angels like disaster trade would include Schwarber. The guy is batting .193 and leading the league in strikeouts. This is such a frigging terrible contract built around launch angle and nothing else. I'd rather have yearly IL updates on Trout than Schwarber in the lineup.