What is Reid Detmers' Future? (Potential Overreaction)

[Reveille1984]

An overhaul of our pitching coaches/trainers is probably in order.  Not that I'm going to fully blame Matt Wise and co. for everyone on the staff completely regressing this year, but we need a new voice to help these guys out.  

Kind of funny that we finally get a mostly healthy pitching staff all year, but they end up completely shitting the bed anyways while our lineup is decimated by injuries.

[Slegnaac]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

That was ten years ago.  He was going into his age 30 season and he was coming off of a season with a 5 ERA. 

Just guessing at the answer to your question.

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Joe Saunders in the Dan Haren trade?

That’s 12 years ago?

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

That’s 12 years ago?

I can’t think of one more recent….

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

Joe Saunders in the Dan Haren trade?

If you want to try and pinpoint the exact moment the Angels organization lost it's way, it was probably this trade.

The trade was not a bad one, nor do I think it would be fair to say that it didn't work out. What it did do is, it marked the moment where the organization failed to realistically evaluate where they were on the competitiveness curve. It also represented one of the first of countless moments where they prioritized wins in the present at the expense of wins in the future over the next decade+.

[Revad]

What I remember about Joe Sauders is I used to defend him but I had no idea what I was talking about.  Like see how many games he’s won?  Man did I get creamed.  But no resentment, I’ve forgotten all about it.  A big part of my point though that he was a pretty stable rotation piece and he was giving his all.  He was an underdog so appealing to me.

[DMVol]

28 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

If you want to try and pinpoint the exact moment the Angels organization lost it's way, it was probably this trade.

The trade was not a bad one, nor do I think it would be fair to say that it didn't work out. What it did do is, it marked the moment where the organization failed to realistically evaluate where they were on the competitiveness curve. It also represented one of the first of countless moments where they prioritized wins in the present at the expense of wins in the future over the next decade+.

I am not going to start the arguments from a couple of weeks ago but the Haren trade feels somewhat similar to this year….although Ohtani was and will forever be a unique situation…….we were 4/5 out and gave the DBacks a huge return for Haren (who was still a good pitcher at that time)….I struggled with what to do this year, there wasn’t a right or wrong answer, but you could argue that to go all in this year will be a seminal moment for this franchise…we’ll see…

[jsnpritchett]

38 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

If you want to try and pinpoint the exact moment the Angels organization lost it's way, it was probably this trade.

The trade was not a bad one, nor do I think it would be fair to say that it didn't work out. What it did do is, it marked the moment where the organization failed to realistically evaluate where they were on the competitiveness curve. It also represented one of the first of countless moments where they prioritized wins in the present at the expense of wins in the future over the next decade+.

 

2 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I am not going to start the arguments from a couple of weeks ago but the Haren trade feels somewhat similar to this year….although Ohtani was and will forever be a unique situation…….we were 4/5 out and gave the DBacks a huge return for Haren (who was still a good pitcher at that time)….I struggled with what to do this year, there wasn’t a right or wrong answer, but you could argue that to go all in this year will be a seminal moment for this franchise…we’ll see…

I don't necessarily disagree with either of you, but I do think it's worth remembering that at least Haren was under contract for two more years after the year in which the Angels made the trade.  So, yeah, they gave up a ton to get him, but at least they got some value from Haren beyond 2010, unlike the flailing, desperate moves from this year.

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with either of you, but I do think it's worth remembering that at least Haren was under contract for two more years after the year in which the Angels made the trade.  So, yeah, they gave up a ton to get him, but at least they got some value from Haren beyond 2010, unlike the flailing, desperate moves from this year.

Very true…and at the time, with both Greinke and Haren, you had to admire the all in approach…but all in makes a lot more sense for the Astros or Rangers this year, who are pretty much just trying to solidify their positions and hope Verlander or Scherzer might push them over the top….all in at 4 or 5 games back is a bit of a stretch….and to this point, it hasn’t looked very smart…

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

15 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

I don't necessarily disagree with either of you, but I do think it's worth remembering that at least Haren was under contract for two more years after the year in which the Angels made the trade.  So, yeah, they gave up a ton to get him, but at least they got some value from Haren beyond 2010, unlike the flailing, desperate moves from this year.

I think the trade would have been more palatable if Haren was just a rental and the price significantly less. The real issue is that it pushed the team "all in" for 2011 and 2012. The team just didnt have the bullets anymore to maintain the 02-09 pace, and this trade marked the emergence of the "we dont rebuild, we reload" philosophy that utterly decimated the franchise all the way through til today.

[Rudedawg]

21 hours ago, ukyah said:

maybe some day, but right now he's pretty fucking far from a #3. this season's performance doesn't even deserve a spot in a good team's rotation.

It’s a typical Angels pitching staff.  Yes, get coaches that know how to fix them.  I agree, he as well as some others would not be on other major league staffs.  Thaiss too would not be at the major league level, we’re he on another team.  Moniak has really tanked with the bat.  Again, it’s on the coaches.  Figure it out.  Oh wait, it’s too late.  

[Mark68]

23 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

This is basically the open and shut point.  He’s very young.  The Angels aren’t exactly a pitching factory.  I am excited to have him.  I genuinely think he’s going to be a real good pitcher for us. 
 

wheres that guy that fixed him last year? It wasn’t fucking Matt Wise.  

Wise broke him.

[m0nkey]

Waiting for Doc and IP to chime so I can copy their opinion. 

[Tyler]

Very good pitcher but really low stamina. Not surprising to see a pitcher who goes 5 innings each start be this fatigued late in the season. 

 

[stormngt]

21 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

If you want to try and pinpoint the exact moment the Angels organization lost it's way, it was probably this trade.

The trade was not a bad one, nor do I think it would be fair to say that it didn't work out. What it did do is, it marked the moment where the organization failed to realistically evaluate where they were on the competitiveness curve. It also represented one of the first of countless moments where they prioritized wins in the present at the expense of wins in the future over the next decade+.

Agreed

[fan_since79]

By the way, whatever happened to Parker Bridwell? He went 10-3 in 2017 with a good ERA, had one disastrous start in 2018, and that was it for his career. Was there an injury I missed? He's Trout's age.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, fan_since79 said:

By the way, whatever happened to Parker Bridwell? He went 10-3 in 2017 with a good ERA, had one disastrous start in 2018, and that was it for his career. Was there an injury I missed? He's Trout's age.

He was smoke and mirrors in 2017.  Look at his underlying stats beyond ERA in that year.  After he was sent down in 2018, he proceeded to have a 2.107 WHIP at AAA.  In 2019, he had a 1.94 WHIP in 88 2/3 innings at AAA.  He did have some sort of elbow injury in 2018, I think, but even without it, I highly doubt he'd still be around.

[fan_since79]

21 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

He was smoke and mirrors in 2017.  Look at his underlying stats beyond ERA in that year.  After he was sent down in 2018, he proceeded to have a 2.107 WHIP at AAA.  In 2019, he had a 1.94 WHIP in 88 2/3 innings at AAA.  He did have some sort of elbow injury in 2018, I think, but even without it, I highly doubt he'd still be around.

Thanks for the in-depth response. That explains it.

[HBAngel13]

Early John Lackey and Detmers are eerily similar. Lackey was plagued by the “big inning” before he made the adjustment and became the front line guy we remember. I’m hoping that Detmers can make a similar adjustment, but my fear is that we don’t have the player development apparatus to help him reach his full potential.  The talent is there…

 

[Tank]

On 8/11/2023 at 9:33 PM, Duren, Duren said:

If he has the physical tools to be in the major leagues then coaching and refinement should help him get the most out of his talent. But there also is the mental side.

He seems to have little confidence when something goes wrong. A bad call, an early hit, defensive failures behind him. A defeatist attitude has set in after a season of repeated breakdowns.

The rest of his season should be dedicated to building up confidence. And that requires fighting through tough times. With more grit and poise. With competent coaching he should have already been making progress. But it's the same story every game. 

Maybe he needs to miss a start or two  to just work on mechanics, strategies and reinforce the mindset that got him early success. Something to break out of this pattern. 

so much this. watching detmers this year, he seems like he doesn't have nearly enough fight out there whenever he's in a tight spot. i'd like to see more of a bulldog attitude from him than he's shown this year. i think this is all about his mental toughness.

[Tank]

what i've learned today is that some of you are remembering the haren trade far differently than i do. saunders showed flashes of greatness but was too inconsistent to sustain it game after game. haren was a great compliment to weaver, and our pitching staff was better with him than it was with saunders. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

what i've learned today is that some of you are remembering the haren trade far differently than i do. saunders showed flashes of greatness but was too inconsistent to sustain it game after game. haren was a great compliment to weaver, and our pitching staff was better with him than it was with saunders. 

He absolutely made the team better. The problem is the team failed to make the playoffs or even reach 90 wins during his time here. The team also gave up Patrick Corbin and Tyler Skaggs in addition to Saunders to get him. 

This is where the seeds of future failures were first sown.

[Mark PT]

On 8/12/2023 at 2:16 AM, arch stanton said:

I'd be willing to put more blame on the organizational philosophy than on Wise. I know I'm old but I'd really prefer to see more well-placed fastballs early in the count. 93 on a corner at the knees is better than 96 out of the zone or in the fat of the plate or a slider that's never near the zone

I hear ya, but I'm not sure Detmers has that type of control.

[Blarg]

On 8/11/2023 at 6:24 PM, Jason said:

2023 Detmers is ass. 

I agree. 

 

 

 

Hi @Lou

[m0nkey]

One of his best starts right after this thread is made. Some would call it clockwork