Minasian's Gambit

[Stradling]

5 hours ago, DMVol said:

No offense but I’d probably bet on Nightingale over you….

So would I.  But we agree with Nightengale on this because it’s anti Arte. 

[DMVol]

Just now, Stradling said:

So would I.  But we agree with Nightengale on this because it’s anti Arte. 

No, I just think it aligns with what we know....Arte is hands on....and that's not all bad....I think he wants to win and the "hands on" label doesn't stem from being cheap.  It just hasn't been productive for the last decade...And, for the record, I think there are some reporters who carry water for agents, front office people, etc.  But I also don't think Bob Nightingale or Jeff Passan or Ken Rosenthal are dishonest hacks, which a significant portion of this board seems to buy in to....

[jsnpritchett]

52 minutes ago, Skips said:

True -- but then why would Ohtani resign for 2024+ when all these guys Perry traded for are FA and gone.  So nothing he got will be here after this year.  Further, Perry now has less bullets to use for future acquisitions in 2024+.  Which are desperately is needed because there are not impact players available and ready from the minors.  Nor would there be much, if any, salary available after signing Ohtani to a record contract.  

If i'm Ohtani, maybe i'm impressed that Perry/Arte tried.  But that is done and over once 2023 ends because none of those acquisitions will benefit 2024+.....and the organization is now weaker (less assets to trade) going forward.  If anything, i'm less inclined now to stay with LAA if i am Ohtani and i care about winning with the team i sign with this FA period.  

Agree with all of this and think I've said some version of portions of it in other threads. If I were Ohtani, I wouldn't be particularly impressed with what this organization's version of "going all-in" looks like, since, as you correctly point out, it just puts them in a weaker position moving forward in terms of prospect capital for trades that will impact 2024 and beyond.

[BTH]

12 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

Agree with all of this and think I've said some version of portions of it in other threads. If I were Ohtani, I wouldn't be particularly impressed with what this organization's version of "going all-in" looks like, since, as you correctly point out, it just puts them in a weaker position moving forward in terms of prospect capital for trades that will impact 2024 and beyond.

I think the idea is more showing Ohtani that you’re not giving up when you’re 3 GB of a WC.

 

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Trendon said:

I think the idea is more showing Ohtani that you’re not giving up when you’re 3 GB of a WC.

 

I understand that's the theory, but the result still wouldn't convince me of much.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

No, I just think it aligns with what we know....Arte is hands on....and that's not all bad....I think he wants to win and the "hands on" label doesn't stem from being cheap.  It just hasn't been productive for the last decade...And, for the record, I think there are some reporters who carry water for agents, front office people, etc.  But I also don't think Bob Nightingale or Jeff Passan or Ken Rosenthal are dishonest hacks, which a significant portion of this board seems to buy in to....

I have seen enough of  Nightengale being wrong to not assume his word is not gospel.  As for Passan and Rosenthal, I like both and respect both.  And while you may not agree with what I said about agreeing with him because of how we feel about Arte, this board is full of people who will talk shit about someone because they post something they don’t like.  

I have no idea if this was Arte driven, since this off season was different in their approach, I assume he hasn’t been as “hands on” as he was a few years ago.  I think there is a better chance of Arte signing off on it, rather than Arte giving a directive.  Even if Arte gave a directive to improve the team when they are 3 games out, it would still be Perry making the decisions on who to get.  Arte isn’t telling Perry, “go get Cron, Escobar, Moustakas and DeLeon, oh and if you go after Giolito you better grab Lopez as well”.  

[DMVol]

22 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I have seen enough of  Nightengale being wrong to not assume his word is not gospel.  As for Passan and Rosenthal, I like both and respect both.  And while you may not agree with what I said about agreeing with him because of how we feel about Arte, this board is full of people who will talk shit about someone because they post something they don’t like.  

I have no idea if this was Arte driven, since this off season was different in their approach, I assume he hasn’t been as “hands on” as he was a few years ago.  I think there is a better chance of Arte signing off on it, rather than Arte giving a directive.  Even if Arte gave a directive to improve the team when they are 3 games out, it would still be Perry making the decisions on who to get.  Arte isn’t telling Perry, “go get Cron, Escobar, Moustakas and DeLeon, oh and if you go after Giolito you better grab Lopez as well”.  

I don’t think anybody thinks Arte directed that Perry get certain players….Obviously, Perry’s choices maybe weren’t the best in hindsight, or at least to this point, but they were his choices…I think Nightingale was probably being melodramatic in saying there was a “directive”….but I just don’t find it plausible to think Arte wasn’t fully in on the plan…what we don’t know is where Minasian was…did he push back at any point and say “long term, maybe we need to trade Ohtani”….did he go all in because he knew that was what Arte wanted? Dunno…3 games out of the Wild Card made for a really tough decision.

[Angels in 2030]

2 hours ago, Trendon said:

I think the idea is more showing Ohtani that you’re not giving up when you’re 3 GB of a WC.

 

Failure is failure.  That horse that keeps trying and gets to the finish line, albeit last each time, is not making me want to keep betting on him time after time.  It seemingly gives more evidence that this team/organization is not one to be relied upon to make the correct/proper/good decisions in order to sustain & build a winning franchise (heck even just one year getting to the playoff or finishing .500 the past 8 years).  How much more evidence and proof is needed to shoot this horse and put it out of its misery lol.

[Jay]

3 hours ago, Trendon said:

I think the idea is more showing Ohtani that you’re not giving up when you’re 3 GB of a WC.

 

You have to go out and make a bunch of bonehead moves to show you're not giving up? Makes no sense.

[Angelsjunky]

I thought i'd get one more snarky remark out of this.

Since the trade deadline, the Angels are 8-24. Well done, Perry, well done.

 

[REDneck]

9 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I thought i'd get one more snarky remark out of this.

Since the trade deadline, the Angels are 8-24. Well done, Perry, well done.

 

Checkmate!

[Blarg]

26 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I thought i'd get one more snarky remark out of this.

Since the trade deadline, the Angels are 8-24. Well done, Perry, well done.

 

It's not snarky if it is just the facts. Minasian gambled, as you said, on lottery picks. Ohtani gambled on being a two way player. He has failed twice at it in 6 years causing himself extended injury recovery. Minasian caused himself extended minor league recovery. Of the two Ohtani at least has won a couple (this year is a lock) MVPs. 

[Angelsjunky]

 

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

It's not snarky if it is just the facts. Minasian gambled, as you said, on lottery picks. Ohtani gambled on being a two way player. He has failed twice at it in 6 years causing himself extended injury recovery. Minasian caused himself extended minor league recovery. Of the two Ohtani at least has won a couple (this year is a lock) MVPs. 

I can't be irked with Ohtani, because he's given us some of the most sublime baseball we've ever seen, and he hasn't done anything to hurt the team's future.

But Minasian? It is his job to assess and balance the near vs. long-term, to have a sense of who will help the team, and build a sustainable contender. He's failed on pretty much all counts. I know, injuries and it was a difficult situation. But my annoyance is that he made things worse, not better. Now the team is 8-24 since the deadline and a bunch of prospects short. 

[thebloob]

Sometimes good managers of any business (GM in this case) has to be willing to make difficult choices for the health of the business.  Go back 5-6 years and there was significant talk about trading mike trout for a massive haul.  Now no one has any idea whether that would have changed the past few years but it could hardly have been worse. 
 

the same franchise faced with the same decision and unable to make the difficult choice.  hopefully the next 6 years are different than the past 6 years after the trout decision.   I know that there is plenty of support for signinghim and maybe it was the right thing, but don’t you sometimes have to ask”what if?”

 Now, I hope mike trout HAS to say that he has no idea what ohtani is gonna do, I really hope that.  The alternative is that these guys don’t talk at all.  After 5 years together no talks about the biggest decision in ohtani’s future, especially when it mirrors trouts decision 5 years ago. 

[mmc]

I said this in another thread but I understand that people want to point the finger at someone and get mad but this failure isn’t on anyone but the players and the blame falls solely on them for this failure.  I didn’t want them to buy but the reality is if you remove your fan glasses and assess the team as the front office/Arte does they were never in a position where they were going to sell, and Minasian put together a much better team than how they performed in august.  Was it enough to make the playoffs, no I don’t think so but certainly enough to be playing competitive baseball right now, but the players completely shit the bed

[Jay]

Minasian is a weak GM but maybe that's what Arte prefers.

 

 

[BTH]

4 hours ago, mmc said:

I said this in another thread but I understand that people want to point the finger at someone and get mad but this failure isn’t on anyone but the players and the blame falls solely on them for this failure.  

The bigger issue I have with Minasian is that I’m not sure he has surrounded himself with the right people.

The support staff around the team (analytics, coaching staff, training staff) seems to be a mess.

It’s Perry’s job to hire the right department heads and personnel.