Minasian's Gambit

[UndertheHalo]

Change the title of the thread to AJ’s gambit

[ukyah]

i don't think i've ever known a team that for years with same/similar core players who consistently never answer a bell. it dumbfounds my mind how unbelievably soft this franchise has become. 

when it comes time to show what they're made of and if they have any pride, these guys are the suckiest bunch of sucks who ever sucked.

[TroutField]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

i don't think i've ever known a team that for years with same/similar core players who consistently never answer a bell. it dumbfounds my mind how unbelievably soft this franchise has become. 

when it comes time to show what they're made of and if they have any pride, these guys are the suckiest bunch of sucks who ever sucked.

It’s like how Chapman in the Toronto saying to his manager why are you pitching to Ohtani, nobody else can hit?! And then we go ahead and roll over like a bunch of soft ass losers and do exactly what Chapman said we would. 
 

pathetic. 

[Angelsjunky]

Bump for smug factor.

 

[Angelsjunky]

3-10 since I made this thread. 

But, but...he tried! He had to try!

Right?

[mmc]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

3-10 since I made this thread. 

But, but...he tried! He had to try!

Right?

Arte said he did, so yeah.  You are smart enough to understand this.

[Angelsjunky]

6 minutes ago, mmc said:

Arte said he did, so yeah.  You are smart enough to understand this.

I think it is kind of funny how you're trying to school me, mmc. 

Anyhow, Perry is still the one making the deals. Arte isn't -- as far as we know - telling him who to trade. 

And before you say "but hindsight is 20-20," the whole gig is about how things look in hindsight. Good moves look good in hindsight, bad moves don't. Perry's overall "body of work" this past month and half looks terrible. 

[Angels in 2030]

Arte and delusional fans were the only ones who thought this could be a playoff team and that they should buy.   They doubled down on 15 with the dealer showing a King. 

[mmc]

8 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I think it is kind of funny how you're trying to school me, mmc. 

Anyhow, Perry is still the one making the deals. Arte isn't -- as far as we know - telling him who to trade. 

And before you say "but hindsight is 20-20," the whole gig is about how things look in hindsight. Good moves look good in hindsight, bad moves don't. Perry's overall "body of work" this past month and half looks terrible. 

You realize no one he traded has done a damn thing either, right?

And I'm in full agreement with you that buying was a dumbass thing to do, I said well before the deadline that they should sell, so I'm not even in disagreement with you.  What I'm against is pretending this was anything other than a mandate from Arte, as is most of the stupid shit this franchise has done since he took over

[Stradling]

Just now, mmc said:

You realize no one he traded has done a damn thing either, right?

And I'm in full agreement with you that buying was a dumbass thing to do, I said well before the deadline that they should sell, so I'm not even in disagreement with you.  What I'm against is pretending this was anything other than a mandate from Arte, as is most of the stupid shit this franchise has done since he took over

You are assuming it was a mandate. We don’t know that. 

[mmc]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You are assuming it was a mandate. We don’t know that. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/07/27/shoehei-ohtani-future-angels-white-sox-trade-lucas-giolito/70475290007/

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, mmc said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2023/07/27/shoehei-ohtani-future-angels-white-sox-trade-lucas-giolito/70475290007/

Then it must be true. Since Bob has never been wrong. 

[mmc]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Then it must be true. Since Bob has never been wrong. 

You've followed this team just as much as I have for the past couple of years, when every reporter talked about the potential of an Ohtani trade, it was always in the context that it would be decided by Moreno.  But since you'll never stand for any criticism of your favorite owner, your response was entirely predictable.

[Stradling]

21 minutes ago, mmc said:

You've followed this team just as much as I have for the past couple of years, when every reporter talked about the potential of an Ohtani trade, it was always in the context that it would be decided by Moreno.  But since you'll never stand for any criticism of your favorite owner, your response was entirely predictable.

My favorite owner?  That’s adorable. It’s just as likely that Minasian sees the best way to keep Ohtani is to show him a commitment to winning. 

[Angel Oracle]

Cron .523 OPS

Grichuk .558 OPS

Escobar .612 OPS

At least with those 3 acquisitions, Perry looks like Eppler.

None of those three better be here in 2024!

Edited August 15, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[DMVol]

8 hours ago, Stradling said:

My favorite owner?  That’s adorable. It’s just as likely that Minasian sees the best way to keep Ohtani is to show him a commitment to winning. 

No offense but I’d probably bet on Nightingale over you….

[Angelsjunky]

9 hours ago, mmc said:

You realize no one he traded has done a damn thing either, right?

And I'm in full agreement with you that buying was a dumbass thing to do, I said well before the deadline that they should sell, so I'm not even in disagreement with you.  What I'm against is pretending this was anything other than a mandate from Arte, as is most of the stupid shit this franchise has done since he took over

So we agree on that. My point was simply that even if mandated, it was (almost certainly) up to Minasian on who to trade, and for whom. And the fact is that most of the people he traded for haven't done well, or been just OK, and the team plummeted further.

 

 

[DMVol]

13 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

So we agree on that. My point was simply that even if mandated, it was (almost certainly) up to Minasian on who to trade, and for whom. And the fact is that most of the people he traded for haven't done well, or been just OK, and the team plummeted further.

My only qualification would be that if he had to go all in (and I don’t know how you would think otherwise), Minasian was in a tough spot…Giolito was considered the best starter out there not named Verlander or Scherzer. You weren’t going to get him except for top prospects. After that, we didn’t have the prospect capital to get impact position players when Ward went down. Grichuk and Cron aren’t great but there weren’t guys out there we could realistically get. That said, he didn’t hit a home run like Anthopolous did in 2021 at the deadline—-Pederson, Soler and Rosario were all key for the Braves down the stretch and didn’t cost a ton. Of Perry’s gets, only Moose has really been effective (like Soler, Rosario and Pederson were)… 

[thebloob]

10 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Cron .523 OPS

Grichuk .558 OPS

Escobar .612 OPS

At least with those 3 acquisitions, Perry looks like Eppler.

None of those three better be here in 2024!

While I think all these moves were bad some blame goes straight to the players.  OPS at the time of acquisition:

Cron .780

grichuk .861

escobar .695

 

all fell off, in Grichuks case dramatically.  not sure what the effect of playing in Colorado had for grichuk and cron.  I doubt they are difference makers cause the pitching has also floundered but if they had just maintained their prior level of output. .  

[mmc]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

My only qualification would be that if he had to go all in (and I don’t know how you would think otherwise), Minasian was in a tough spot…Giolito was considered the best starter out there not named Verlander or Scherzer. You weren’t going to get him except for top prospects. After that, we didn’t have the prospect capital to get impact position players when Ward went down. Grichuk and Cron aren’t great but there weren’t guys out there we could realistically get. That said, he didn’t hit a home run like Anthopolous did in 2021 at the deadline—-Pederson, Soler and Rosario were all key for the Braves down the stretch and didn’t cost a ton. Of Perry’s gets, only Moose has really been effective (like Soler, Rosario and Pederson were)… 

He definitely could have gotten better players, however I don't think there's anyone we could've gotten that would've taken this team anywhere, so ultimately all we'd be doing is wasting more prospect capital

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

My only qualification would be that if he had to go all in (and I don’t know how you would think otherwise), Minasian was in a tough spot…Giolito was considered the best starter out there not named Verlander or Scherzer. You weren’t going to get him except for top prospects. After that, we didn’t have the prospect capital to get impact position players when Ward went down. Grichuk and Cron aren’t great but there weren’t guys out there we could realistically get. That said, he didn’t hit a home run like Anthopolous did in 2021 at the deadline—-Pederson, Soler and Rosario were all key for the Braves down the stretch and didn’t cost a ton. Of Perry’s gets, only Moose has really been effective (like Soler, Rosario and Pederson were)… 

I fully acknowledge how difficult his position was/is, and have said as much. To reiterate my main issue: He traded a significant number of prospects away to (hopefully) improve the Angels' already slim chances of a postseason berth. When you have a 10% chance (or so), I just don't think it is worth trading from the future just to improve your chances negligibly. Of course if they had gotten hot, I'd be singing a different tune. But they didn't, and now we're left with a worst-case scenario: no postseason berth, prospects lost, and quite possibly Ohtani gone too.

[Jay]

7 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I fully acknowledge how difficult his position was/is, and have said as much. To reiterate my main issue: He traded a significant number of prospects away to (hopefully) improve the Angels' already slim chances of a postseason berth. When you have a 10% chance (or so), I just don't think it is worth trading from the future just to improve your chances negligibly. Of course if they had gotten hot, I'd be singing a different tune. But they didn't, and now we're left with a worst-case scenario: no postseason berth, prospects lost, and quite possibly Ohtani gone too.

Is this the reason though, or did he do it to impress Ohtani?

[Duren, Duren]

When you don't have a core nucleus of players who lead by example it's a lot of pressure on new additions to immediately be difference makers. 

They come too a new team/city in a desperate position and are expected to immediately be big factors. Moustakas has been the only one who has pretty much done what was expected. I'm not sure if the other additions have had trouble adjusting to their new circumstances. 

Or if they are just not as good as hoped for. 

Ohtani is literally the only veteran everyday player who has led by example. Played up his potential and more. Injuries have depleted the lineup too. None of the acquired players have ever played with both Trout and Ohtani in the lineup. 

In the end the team on the field is a patchwork collection of individuals without much familiarity or a strong leadership core to defuse some of the pressure. 

[Angelsjunky]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

Is this the reason though, or did he do it to impress Ohtani?

[Angels in 2030]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Is this the reason though, or did he do it to impress Ohtani?

True -- but then why would Ohtani resign for 2024+ when all these guys Perry traded for are FA and gone.  So nothing he got will be here after this year.  Further, Perry now has less bullets to use for future acquisitions in 2024+.  Which are desperately is needed because there are not impact players available and ready from the minors.  Nor would there be much, if any, salary available after signing Ohtani to a record contract.  

If i'm Ohtani, maybe i'm impressed that Perry/Arte tried.  But that is done and over once 2023 ends because none of those acquisitions will benefit 2024+.....and the organization is now weaker (less assets to trade) going forward.  If anything, i'm less inclined now to stay with LAA if i am Ohtani and i care about winning with the team i sign with this FA period.