Angels recall Jimmy Herget and Gerardo Reyes, option Zack Weiss, place Chris Devenski on IL

[Jason]

[Duren, Duren]

Somehow Herget managed to be effective last season through his dazzling deception and  erratic movement on his pitches. He reminds me of a knuckleball pitcher without a knuckleball! But without excellent control he's a batting practice pitcher. 

In theory if he can get ahead in counts, mix in a fastball over 90 mph and get chases he might not be any worse than most of the other bullpen rag arms. But this year he regressed badly from last season. 

[mmc]

 

[fan_since79]

51 minutes ago, Jason said:

D’oh! Herget stinks 

Eh, he's just working on some things.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I bet, the ball has been coming out of his hand real well in AAA....

[ELEVEN]

On 7/16/2023 at 8:43 PM, Warfarin said:

The general theme I see is once a pitcher who has no options begins to pitch poorly, they are suddenly "injured."  After being lit up multiple times, Suarez was "injured," and now Devenski is "injured" ..  

Injured is the new ass

[Jeff Fletcher]

13 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Can’t say this often enough.   Wise needs to go now.

They ought to find whoever was the pitching coach last year when the Angels ranked 9th in the majors in ERA (6th among starters). 

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They ought to find whoever was the pitching coach last year when the Angels ranked 9th in the majors in ERA (6th among starters). 

Exactly, what happened to that guy in 2023?

[BTH]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They ought to find whoever was the pitching coach last year when the Angels ranked 9th in the majors in ERA (6th among starters). 

They were 22nd in ERA in 2021. And they are 23rd this year.

Over a three year sample, it’s clear that 2022 was an outlier.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

They were 22nd in ERA in 2021. And they are 23rd this year.

Over a three year sample, it’s clear that 2022 was an outlier.

OK, which do you think is more likely to vary from year to year: a pitcher's performance or a coach's ability?

[BTH]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

OK, which do you think is more likely to vary from year to year: a pitcher's performance or a coach's ability?

But it’s not one pitcher’s performance vs. one coach’s ability.

It’s multiple pitcher’s performances vs. one coach’s ability.

And my point is that Wise probably got more credit than he deserved in 2022, because he’s the same coach that he was in 2021 when they weren’t good. And now we’re seeing the 2023 results look like the 2021 results.

[Dtwncbad]

Isn’t this about where someone fantasizes that a pitcher from the 2002 team needs to hired immediately as the pitching coach?

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

50 minutes ago, Trendon said:

And my point is that Wise probably got more credit than he deserved in 2022

And my point is it doesn't matter who the pitching coach is. The players are responsible for themselves.

Everyone always seems to love blaming coaches, but what if a player pitched a bad game and afterward said: "I think it's the coach's fault that I wasn't good." I think everyone would rightly kill that guy for lack of accountability.

[BTH]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

And my point is it doesn't matter who the pitching coach is. The players are responsible for themselves.

They are responsible for themselves, but the pitching coach clearly is supposed to bring something to the table. Otherwise, teams wouldn’t have a pitching coach.

What exactly does Wise bring to the table?

maybe I’ve missed them or forgotten them, but I don’t recall seeing a ton of pieces where a pitcher is crediting Wise for helping him with X this season.

I remember Suarez said something last year. But we know Wise couldn’t correct Detmers’ slider issue last year.

[Taylor]

18 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

And my point is it doesn't matter who the pitching coach is. The players are responsible for themselves.

Everyone always seems to love blaming coaches, but what if a player pitched a bad game and afterward said: "I think it's the coach's fault that I wasn't good." I think everyone would rightly kill that guy for lack of accountability.

So why have a coaching staff?

[Tank]

50 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

And my point is it doesn't matter who the pitching coach is. The players are responsible for themselves.

Everyone always seems to love blaming coaches, but what if a player pitched a bad game and afterward said: "I think it's the coach's fault that I wasn't good." I think everyone would rightly kill that guy for lack of accountability.

from what you've seen, can explain what kinds of things a pitching coach works on with his stable of pitchers? i don't feel like i understand very well just what he does or is supposed to do.

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Tank said:

from what you've seen, can explain what kinds of things a pitching coach works on with his stable of pitchers? i don't feel like i understand very well just what he does or is supposed to do.

“A pitching coach, if you think about it, coaches the pitchers. . .”

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

So why have a coaching staff?

Tradition. Logistics. Someone wearing a uniform has to take the analytical stuff to the players so they'll listen to it. 

If teams thought they were that important, they'd get paid more. But they don't because teams ultimately view them as easily replaceable. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

from what you've seen, can explain what kinds of things a pitching coach works on with his stable of pitchers? i don't feel like i understand very well just what he does or is supposed to do.

These days I think it's mostly to be a bridge between the analytics people and the pitchers. They work with the guys in the bullpen on their pitch shapes. Find a way to put your fingers on the ball to impart a certain kind of spin. That sort of thing. 

[jsnpritchett]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

So why have a coaching staff?

To give us someone other than just the players to bitch about.  Duh.

[BTH]

5 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Tradition. Logistics. Someone wearing a uniform has to take the analytical stuff to the players so they'll listen to it. 

If teams thought they were that important, they'd get paid more. But they don't because teams ultimately view them as easily replaceable. 

Do you know if the pay is the same for coaches around the league?

Maybe the problem is teams like the Rays, Dodgers, and Astros pay their coaches well in order to attract the best coaches while the Angels don't pay their coaches well because they think they're "easily replaceable" when that's not the case.

[PattyD22]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

Do you know if the pay is the same for coaches around the league?

Maybe the problem is teams like the Rays, Dodgers, and Astros pay their coaches well in order to attract the best coaches while the Angels don't pay their coaches well because they think they're "easily replaceable" when that's not the case.

I’d assume guys like Leo Mazzone, Mel Stottlemeyer, and a few others with great pitchers under their wings were probably paid pretty well.  Hell, Mike Maddox is probably paid handsomely also.

I don’t know what the going rate is for a tier 1 pitching coach, but I highly doubt the Angels pay that rate.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

Do you know if the pay is the same for coaches around the league?

Maybe the problem is teams like the Rays, Dodgers, and Astros pay their coaches well in order to attract the best coaches while the Angels don't pay their coaches well because they think they're "easily replaceable" when that's not the case.

I think there are some minor differences in coach salaries but I’m really not sure. 
 

Teams like the Dodgers, Rays, Astros never seem to have “big name” coaches who you’ve heard of. 
 

I think those teams just have coaches who do exactly what the analytics people tell them. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

18 minutes ago, PattyD22 said:

Leo Mazzone, Mel Stottlemeyer

These examples of from 25 years ago. 
 

It doesn’t work that way anymore. 

[BTH]

57 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think there are some minor differences in coach salaries but I’m really not sure. 
 

Teams like the Dodgers, Rays, Astros never seem to have “big name” coaches who you’ve heard of. 
 

I think those teams just have coaches who do exactly what the analytics people tell them. 

Do Angels coaches do exactly what the analytics people tell them?

My guess would be no, but I could be wrong.