The Official Shohei Ohtani Trade Return Thread (if the Angels trade him)

[BTH]

7 minutes ago, case said:

What a stupid move why not use the Dodgers to push the price up for others?

based on what Rosenthal said, it sounded like Dodgers people were giving him that info.

So the Angels may not want that info to get out, but the Dodgers people pushed it out so their fans know why they aren't making an Ohtani trade.

[Warfarin]

23 minutes ago, case said:

What a stupid move why not use the Dodgers to push the price up for others?

It is dumb for Moreno to basically outright say that.  It's fine if he has no intent to do it, but why not just at least pretend to involve them?  Especially if the Giants become involved .. you would see how pretending to involve the Dodgers could potentially lead to a better return.

[Warfarin]

15 minutes ago, Trendon said:

based on what Rosenthal said, it sounded like Dodgers people were giving him that info.

So the Angels may not want that info to get out, but the Dodgers people pushed it out so their fans know why they aren't making an Ohtani trade.

The Angels people should at least pretend they are interested.  Even if there was never any intent to trade him there, just involve them in negotiations and use whatever they offer as leverage to improve what you get from other teams.  No negotiating team should ever tell another team they have no intention to trade a player to them.  

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

I’m more nervous about seeing the thread or notification that the deadline passed and they didn’t trade him.

This is my greatest concern, and to be honest, I was a little concerned that this team would mount a half-hearted run leading up to the trade deadline, convince Moreno to "go for it," then flame out and lose Ohtani for nothing but a compensation pick.

Unless the FO knows Ohtani is staying, which seems rather unlikely, they really need to get Arte to agree to trade him.  Arte reportedly doesn't want to be the owner who trades Ohtani, but it would be an even worse look to be the owner who let Ohtani go for nothing.

[BTH]

27 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

The Angels people should at least pretend they are interested.  Even if there was never any intent to trade him there, just involve them in negotiations and use whatever they offer as leverage to improve what you get from other teams.  No negotiating team should ever tell another team they have no intention to trade a player to them.  

maybe they have, but the Dodgers people are smart enough to tell the difference between real or fake conversations.

[BTH]

20 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

This is my greatest concern, and to be honest, I was a little concerned that this team would mount a half-hearted run leading up to the trade deadline, convince Moreno to "go for it," then flame out and lose Ohtani for nothing but a compensation pick.

they still could, which worries me.

That stretch with 6 against the Pirates and Tigers is the the danger zone.

[Warfarin]

8 minutes ago, Trendon said:

maybe they have, but the Dodgers people are smart enough to tell the difference between real or fake conversations.

I mean, maybe?  But they could at least name some names of guys they are interested in.  It likely isn't too hard to fake genuine interest.  The Dodgers have an army of prospects and are a concern to all contending teams.  Why not pretend you are truly interested, then take whatever they are offering on 8/1 to other teams and say "this is the offer you need to beat?"  

But all that said, yeah, I would ultimately choose to not trade with the Dodgers or Rays.  Those teams know which prospects to trade and which ones not to.  I just wish it wasn't being essentially announced publicly so early.

[DMVol]

12 hours ago, case said:

What a stupid move why not use the Dodgers to push the price up for others?

It is consistent with the way the franchise has been run for the past decade....

[Stradling]

Whether Arte would or wouldn’t trade him to the Dodgers, this isn’t a report, it’s an assumption or a rumor. Arte isn’t telling people he’s not trading him to the Dodgers. If he told Perry or Carpino they aren’t telling this to the media. No one else Arte might confide in is interview worthy. This is soap opera fiction that some idiots believe because it helps them hate him more. 

[Chuck]

This tweet hit.  

[Stradling]

Just now, Chuckster70 said:

This tweet hit.  

Now retweet the Nevin quote about him wanting to win here.  

[Chuck]

11 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Now retweet the Nevin quote about him wanting to win here.  

?

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

?

 

[Chuck]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

 

Didn't see that. Done! 

[Chuck]

Bad ass 

[ten ocho recon scout]

22 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

 

We need context here. 

Are we sure he wasn't watching the mustard race the ketchup on the scoreboard, only to see relish pull it out at the end?

[Chuck]

10 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

We need context here. 

Are we sure he wasn't watching the mustard race the ketchup on the scoreboard, only to see relish pull it out at the end?

Context was the Sunday night game late when Matt Thaiss line drive to RF that could have at least tied the game but Kyle Tucker laid out and caught it to end the contest. 

[m0nkey]

40 minutes ago, Stradling said:

 

Confirmed

 

[Angelsjunky]

Here's what Fangraphs has to say. They ranked him #25 in their trade value series -- which is the first (and perhaps only ever) time they have ranked a rental in the series.

 

“I have a hard time wrapping my head around Ohtani being this high.” “He should either be number one, or not on the top 50.” “I think teams would give up more than this for him.” Time after time, Ohtani was the player folks most wanted to talk about while I was gathering feedback for this series. He’s the best player in the world, and if he’s moved, his tenure with his new team will be over in the blink of an eye. In the history of the Trade Value Series, we’ve never had a rental ranked in the top 50 and we probably won’t ever again. Even our tableizer can’t handle Ohtani; you can’t build rows for future years of team-controlled value when no such future years are locked in yet.

Ranking him 25th is somewhat arbitrary; he doesn’t operate on the same axis as anyone else in this exercise. All the production/time/money calculations I do to help determine trade value don’t work for him. Trading for Ohtani isn’t about counting up wins and dollars; you’re obviously going to be giving up more than you get back. It’s about getting a global superstar for your playoff push, getting a huge influx of fans and international attention, and spending four months trying to convince a two-way wonder to accept a huge pile of loot to play for you until he retires. It’s about the chance to have your team’s logo on his cap when his plaque goes up in Cooperstown.

Is Ohtani going to favor the first team to take him to the MLB postseason when he’s choosing his long-term fate? I don’t know! GMs don’t know. Owners don’t know either, but they might be willing to find out. This isn’t like trading for Juan Soto; my friends who don’t follow baseball have never heard of Juan Soto. Ohtani is bigger than baseball, here or anywhere else; he’d make a Yankees hat more famous than Jay-Z did.

Most front offices wouldn’t consider it. It’s irresponsible in the long run if your goal is to win the most baseball games while expending the least amount of resources. Just wait three months and pitch him in free agency. But I think Ohtani is a big enough deal to the game as a whole that owners, not baseball ops people, will be making this decision, and the chances that one of them says “Screw it, go get him,” are non-zero. Will a few 55 FV prospects stand between a billionaire and their chance at history? We’re about to find out.

Or maybe we aren’t. Arte Moreno might not be willing to give up on Ohtani, even if he could get a king’s ransom in return. Again, he’s Shohei Freaking Ohtani, the only one there will ever be, and even if he’s done wearing an Angels uniform after the season ends, he’s going to pack a lot of folks into the ballpark in the meantime.

 

Let’s assume there is a trade, though, because that’s more fun. I can guarantee you two things. First, the team that trades for him will give up a prospect haul that would make Eric Longenhagen giggle uncontrollably, a return far in excess of what any reasonable valuation system would suggest for a rental player. Second, the fans and employees of that team won’t care. They will have gotten Ohtani! Very few teams in the history of baseball will be able to say that when it’s all said and done.

[Hubs]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38024142/mlb-trade-deadline-2023-shohei-ohtani-angels-yankees-dodgers-mets-rangers

 

They had Jeff Passan give them his opinion (as the Angels GM) of their other "experts" packages, presumably from the hospital? As he broke his back this past weekend?

Anyway, it's interesting to see his opinion. Alden Gonzalez did the Rays package, Jeff said no way. He's hanging up without Junior Caminero in the deal.

Kiley McDaniel did the Yankees and Jeff also said no. (It didn't include Dominguez or Jones, and he compares it to the package they traded for Joey Gallo.

Jeff also didn't like Eric Karabell's Mets' package. Said he'd consider it if the Angels also dropped Rendon's contract.

The Orioles package was better,...but still not good enough. Suggested they Add or swap in Colton Cowser.

Giants package by Jesse Rogers was on the same tier as the Orioles. Turned down and he wanted an additional name.

Mariners package by McDaniel was turned down. It was getting much closer but there was a lack of a headliner in the deal, Jeff said to add in one of their current starters an it gets closer.

Diamondbacks package headed by Lawlar was still turned down, and he still turned it down. But said it was close to a yes.

Rangers package was the first Passan said ok too, and he still wanted one name swapped for a definite yes.

Dodgers package he said was way too much for the Dodgers to offer, and the Angels would take this deal. It is 6 of their top 10 prospects, in one of the best systems in baseball, (#3, #4, #6, #7, #9, and #10)...but I personally would want Andy Pages (#5) or Michael Busch (#2) over Rushing, as they don't need a catcher in a deal back. But since Rushing is two years away, maybe you do it. 

 

[jsnpritchett]

6 minutes ago, Hubs said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38024142/mlb-trade-deadline-2023-shohei-ohtani-angels-yankees-dodgers-mets-rangers

 

They had Jeff Passan give them his opinion (as the Angels GM) of their other "experts" packages, presumably from the hospital? As he broke his back this past weekend?

Anyway, it's interesting to see his opinion. Alden Gonzalez did the Rays package, Jeff said no way. He's hanging up without Junior Caminero in the deal.

Kiley McDaniel did the Yankees and Jeff also said no. (It didn't include Dominguez or Jones, and he compares it to the package they traded for Joey Gallo.

Jeff also didn't like Eric Karabell's Mets' package. Said he'd consider it if the Angels also dropped Rendon's contract.

The Orioles package was better,...but still not good enough. Suggested they Add or swap in Colton Cowser.

Giants package by Jesse Rogers was on the same tier as the Orioles. Turned down and he wanted an additional name.

Mariners package by McDaniel was turned down. It was getting much closer but there was a lack of a headliner in the deal, Jeff said to add in one of their current starters an it gets closer.

Diamondbacks package headed by Lawlar was still turned down, and he still turned it down. But said it was close to a yes.

Rangers package was the first Passan said ok too, and he still wanted one name swapped for a definite yes.

Dodgers package he said was way too much for the Dodgers to offer, and the Angels would take this deal. It is 6 of their top 10 prospects, in one of the best systems in baseball, (#3, #4, #6, #7, #9, and #10)...but I personally would want Andy Pages (#5) or Michael Busch (#2) over Rushing, as they don't need a catcher in a deal back. But since Rushing is two years away, maybe you do it. 

 

I will be very happy to be wrong if and when Ohtani gets traded for a package that's BETTER than most of these hypotheticals that Passan "turned down"--but I still doubt teams are even going to offer some of the ones mentioned in the article.

[Hubs]

For what it's worth, I would take that Dodgers package in a hot second, and as much as it pains me to trade him across town, that's a legit offer. I want Busch in the deal, and so maybe sub out one of the pitchers and that makes sense.

The Rangers offer is close, Duran, Porter, Leiter, Fosscue and Morrobel, is their #4 #5, and #6 prospects plus #12. And a good young major league infielder.

I'd do that too, but make them throw in the guy Passan mentioned, as they are in division.

[Angels in 2030]

No way Arte's ego will allow him to give the ok to trading Ohtani.  Even if they lost every game for the next 3-4 weeks.

But if he did and was out on the market, he would go for WAY more than people say.  He's two elite players; not one.  He's a marketing machine that will bring a ton of money into the team that trades for him even if it's only until the end of the season.  He also enables such team to have a 3+ month head start of selling him in FA.  All of this is unique to any pending FA in MLB history.  If he gets traded (he won't), it will be a LOT coming back to the Angels.

 

[Hubs]

Just now, jsnpritchett said:

I will be very happy to be wrong if and when Ohtani gets traded for a package that's BETTER than most of these hypotheticals that Passan "turned down"--but I still doubt teams are even going to offer some of the ones mentioned in the article.

If he gets traded, it better be for a package like the Dodgers are offering, or Rangers as I mentioned in my last post. The Yankees offer is pathetic. Orioles is closest for me too, but I want Cowser in the deal as they suggested. 

I doubt any of these teams offer this type of deal, and I think Ohtani is staying put.

 

[AngelStew43]

Swap out Bobby Miller for Stone, and I'd take the Dodgers deal.  I'd also include Rengifo if they'd add the young OF Deluca to the deal.