The Official Shohei Ohtani Trade Return Thread (if the Angels trade him)

[Revad]

45 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Do Angels have prospects other teams would want for impact players?

I’m sure they do but we need them.  Find a couple relievers and overpay in prospects so they take the salary.  Or go up a couple levels, give up Bush and others to get a SP, catcher, 1b and lock down bullpen.

[Dtwncbad]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They don’t need “impact” players. They need better support players. 

One or two good relievers would make an “impact” but wouldn’t be detrimental to the overall state/direction of the farm.

There are tons of arms available so it may not be so much of a seller’s market.

[floplag]

28 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They don’t need “impact” players. They need better support players. 

i could not disagree with this more.
Support players we have, the problem is were starting them. 
Impact is exactly what they need, someone to move the needle on the standings.  If all your doing is going for depth, you might as well not bother it wont increase our playoff chances. 
Isnt that the goal with this desperation ruin?  to make the post and somehow pray he stays? 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

i could not disagree with this more.
Support players we have, the problem is were starting them. 
Impact is exactly what they need, someone to move the needle on the standings.  If all your doing is going for depth, you might as well not bother it wont increase our playoff chances. 
Isnt that the goal with this desperation ruin?  to make the post and somehow pray he stays? 

It’s not depth I’m looking for. It’s major league starters that are better than the depth we have that’s starting. “Desperation” “pray”. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

 Getting unproven prospects for a superstar doesn't always work out great for the team giving up the superstar. Look back at 2 of the biggest trades trades in the last 15+ years:

Let's revisit the facts. On December 7th, 2007 the Marlins agreed to trade Miguel Cabrera and Dontrell Willis to the Detroit Tigers for outfielder Cameron Maybin, pitcher Andrew Miller, catcher Mike Rabelo and minor league pitchers Eulogio De La Cruz, Dallas Trahern and Burke Badenhop. Look again at those names.

HOUSTON -- The Astros pulled off a blockbuster trade late Thursday, acquiring former American League Cy Young Award winner Justin Verlander from the Detroit Tigers.
The Astros sent right-hander Franklin Perez (No. 3 Astros prospect, per MLBPipeline.com), outfielder Daz Cameron (No. 9) and catcher Jake Rogers (No. 11) to the Tigers, as the teams completed the deal in the minutes leading up to the Aug. 31 deadline for a player to be eligible for the postseason roster.

[totdprods]

40 minutes ago, floplag said:

i could not disagree with this more.
Support players we have, the problem is were starting them. 
Impact is exactly what they need, someone to move the needle on the standings.  If all your doing is going for depth, you might as well not bother it wont increase our playoff chances. 
Isnt that the goal with this desperation ruin?  to make the post and somehow pray he stays? 

Not many impact players available...

They need guys who are upgrades, either by virtue of talent or track record, over guys like Chad Wallach, Trey Cabbage, Michael Stefanic, Eduardo Escobar, Andrew Velazquez on the position player side. 

Logan O'Hoppe replaces Wallach (though I still think adding a veteran back-up C like Hedges or Barnhart or Gomes would be shrewd). 
Drury goes a long way in addressing the Escobar/Cabbage/Stefanic replacement...theoretically, if Rendon returns he'd finish that. Not totally unreasonable to consider CIF upgrades, but bottom of list. Velazquez has at least some utility as an all-glove late-inning replacement who can steal a base and lay down a bunt.

On the pitching side...Reyes, Davidson, possibly Soriano and Webb, maybe one of Silseth and Anderson. Loup seems to be safe now. 
Anderson has pitched well enough that you can presume he's not going anywhere. He's either in rotation or, if struggling, bumped into long-relief. 
Reyes hasn't really shown much. Webb has started to struggle quite a bit, like Devenski. They're here for now but both are expendable. 
Davidson is there until a better option for the mop-up guy emerges. I could see Barria, Suarez, or Anderson claiming that spot if arms are added ahead of them on the chart.
As good as Soriano and Silseth have been, they're likely on the bubble simply because they have options and far too often someone will need to get bumped for a fresh arm from AAA. 
Bachman and Joyce's return timelines are not clear, but IMO in an ideal situation, you'd have them rotating between 1-2 roster spots in August with Soriano (if they're even back) until rosters expand. 
That leaves room for a couple arms added to the pen, maybe one to the rotation (Canning, Sandoval, and Detmers are locked in at this point). 

To me, their deadline list is:

• One SP; doesn't matter if it's at the top (Stroman, Giolito, Flaherty) in the middle (Lugo, Lorenzen) or the bottom (Lynn, Lyles, Carrasco) - adding any SP would help settle other guys into roles, at a minimum. Of course, a better arm is ideal, but have to weigh the cost, especially if it's cheaper to upgrade small here and go bigger on...
• Two relievers: ideally one who has options and another who is a dependable vet. This provides insurance if our young arms can't return, but doesn't clog a spot, and also helps anchor the back-end
• a vet back-up C. Once O'Hoppe returns, there's a strong chance we lose Wallach on waivers. At that point, our catcher depth is again super thin should anything happen to Matt or Logan. Get someone now and either roll with 3 C until Logan is back (let Thaiss/new guy spot some innings at 1B in place of probably Escobar/Cabbage) or DFA Wallach now and see if you're lucky enough to stash him at AAA

Edited July 25, 2023 by totdprods

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

It’s not depth I’m looking for. It’s major league starters that are better than the depth we have that’s starting. “Desperation” “pray”. 

OK, but thats not what you said so... whatever nevermind. 

[floplag]

34 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Not many impact players available...

They need guys who are upgrades, either by virtue of talent or track record, over guys like Chad Wallach, Trey Cabbage, Michael Stefanic, Eduardo Escobar, Andrew Velazquez on the position player side. 

Logan O'Hoppe replaces Wallach (though I still think adding a veteran back-up C like Hedges or Barnhart or Gomes would be shrewd). 
Drury goes a long way in addressing the Escobar/Cabbage/Stefanic replacement...theoretically, if Rendon returns he'd finish that. Not totally unreasonable to consider CIF upgrades, but bottom of list. Velazquez has at least some utility as an all-glove late-inning replacement who can steal a base and lay down a bunt.

On the pitching side...Reyes, Davidson, possibly Soriano and Webb, maybe one of Silseth and Anderson. Loup seems to be safe now. 
Anderson has pitched well enough that you can presume he's not going anywhere. He's either in rotation or, if struggling, bumped into long-relief. 
Reyes hasn't really shown much. Webb has started to struggle quite a bit, like Devenski. They're here for now but both are expendable. 
Davidson is there until a better option for the mop-up guy emerges. I could see Barria, Suarez, or Anderson claiming that spot if arms are added ahead of them on the chart.
As good as Soriano and Silseth have been, they're likely on the bubble simply because they have options and far too often someone will need to get bumped for a fresh arm from AAA. 
Bachman and Joyce's return timelines are not clear, but IMO in an ideal situation, you'd have them rotating between 1-2 roster spots in August with Soriano (if they're even back) until rosters expand. 
That leaves room for a couple arms added to the pen, maybe one to the rotation (Canning, Sandoval, and Detmers are locked in at this point). 

To me, their deadline list is:

• One SP; doesn't matter if it's at the top (Stroman, Giolito, Flaherty) in the middle (Lugo, Lorenzen) or the bottom (Lynn, Lyles, Carrasco) - adding any SP would help settle other guys into roles, at a minimum. Of course, a better arm is ideal, but have to weigh the cost, especially if it's cheaper to upgrade small here and go bigger on...
• Two relievers: ideally one who has options and another who is a dependable vet. This provides insurance if our young arms can't return, but doesn't clog a spot, and also helps anchor the back-end
• a vet back-up C. Once O'Hoppe returns, there's a strong chance we lose Wallach on waivers. At that point, our catcher depth is again super thin should anything happen to Matt or Logan. Get someone now and either roll with 3 C until Logan is back (let Thaiss/new guy spot some innings at 1B in place of probably Escobar/Cabbage) or DFA Wallach now and see if you're lucky enough to stash him at AAA

I disagree, there is impact available if Arte is willing to do what hes never done, break the tax. 

[totdprods]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

I disagree, there is impact available if Arte is willing to do what hes never done, break the tax. 

He had exceeded the tax once, albeit years ago, and this March said explicitly “if we’re in it at the All-Star break, I want to be able to have enough cash to pick somebody up”, in response to why he didn’t go further this winter.

And I didn’t say there were no impact players available, just that there aren’t many. Once you factor in all the other buyers, the Angels limited farm, and the still long shot chance they have, buying aggressively for impact players might not be easy. 

Fortifying the team with a few upgrades on the margins and adding one good arm might be enough, should they have a little luck and some healthy players back. 

[Stradling]

48 minutes ago, floplag said:

OK, but thats not what you said so... whatever nevermind. 

I said they don’t have to be impact players.  They need better support players, players who are better at supporting their impact players.  You choose to argue that. 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I said they don’t have to be impact players.  They need better support players, players who are better at supporting their impact players.  You choose to argue that. 

lol, the master of double talk.
Carry on

[floplag]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

He had exceeded the tax once, albeit years ago, and this March said explicitly “if we’re in it at the All-Star break, I want to be able to have enough cash to pick somebody up”, in response to why he didn’t go further this winter.

And I didn’t say there were no impact players available, just that there aren’t many. Once you factor in all the other buyers, the Angels limited farm, and the still long shot chance they have, buying aggressively for impact players might not be easy. 

Fortifying the team with a few upgrades on the margins and adding one good arm might be enough, should they have a little luck and some healthy players back. 

He has said a lot of things... that he would for the right guy etc... when he makes that real effort, ill beleive it.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

l for one will be glad once August 1 arrives, and l can stop getting upset with all the, will they or won't they trade Ohtani articles.

[Angels 1961]

2 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

l for one will be glad once August 1 arrives, and l can stop getting upset with all the, will they or won't they trade Ohtani articles.

It will be worse, will they or will they not resign Ohtani. Then if he signs with the Dodgers the many I told you so will be posting.

[Stradling]

18 minutes ago, floplag said:

lol, the master of double talk.
Carry on

Double talk?  That is cute.  You misunderstood me and I am the one double talking.  Impact players are guys like Stroman and Ohtani in this trade class.  We don’t need to trade for an impact player.  They need to trade for guys that improve the rotation, so we aren’t relying on Barria or possibly Canning, they need to improve the bullpen so we aren’t relying on Davidson or guys that may not be ready, they need to improve the catching position and guys that improve second or first base. It doesn’t have to be the best guys available.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

33 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

It will be worse, will they or will they not resign Ohtani. Then if he signs with the Dodgers the many I told you so will be posting.

As long as Ohtani is still an Angel on August 1, it should quiet the Ohtani talk for awhile anyway.

[taylorblakeward]

On 7/14/2023 at 11:35 AM, Hubs said:

Dodgers would beat any prospect package here..... Pages, Cartaya, Pepiot, and another prospect?

And No Offense meant, but you're a prospect nerd. You might like prospects and potential better than current Angels players and current Angels success. There's nothing wrong with that...So are Jared Tims and his depressingly negative podcast partner. Even @taylorblakeward can be like that....I like prospects too, but they only pan out like of the 1/3 time. So you'd be getting one legit player back in a three player package. 

I just dont see the immense return that trading Ohtani is gonna bring. And I think if you move him, you can forget about resigning him in the offseason. That almost never happens.

How dare you, sir