Patrick Sandoval

[Taylor]

Why does he suck now? He was our definitive no. 2 going into the season, but he's been pitching like #2.

[totdprods]

37 minutes ago, Taylor said:

He was our definitive no. 2 going into the season

I think that’s part of the problem. He was good last year, but is not a #2 SP. he doesn’t have the durability or composure or command. The stuff can be great, but it’s an arsenal that’s not built to hold up over 30 GS/180 IP consistently. And putting #2 expectations on him wasn’t good for him, and wasn’t good roster construction on Perry’s part. He puts way too much pressure on himself.

I like Sandoval but last year was not a break-out, it was more of a career year - that doesn’t mean he’s not good, or can’t have another good season, but I didn’t buy that he could maintain last year with any consistency and here it’s showing. He’s a #4, and we have like three of those between him, Canning and Anderson on a good day.

That’s partially why I wanted to move him last deadline. It was a seller’s market, and I bet we coulda got something like a second Chase Silseth and Ky Bush for him, plus another piece, and while that woulda dinged the MLB team in 2023, we would’ve still had more semi-MLB ready arms for depth or to flip in another trade. Wish we had signed a Bassitt or an Eovaldi instead of Anderson, and counted on a deeper stable of kid arms to round out the back of the rotation. Would’ve been a lot riskier but better overall for the depth and potential of the MLB club.

Edited June 30, 2023 by totdprods

[AngelsLakersFan]

9 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I think that’s part of the problem. He was good last year, but is not a #2 SP. he doesn’t have the durability or composure or command. The stuff can be great, but it’s an arsenal that’s not built to hold up over 30 GS/180 IP consistently. And putting #2 expectations on him wasn’t good for him, and wasn’t good roster construction on Perry’s part. He puts way too much pressure on himself.

I like Sandoval but last year was not a break-out, it was more of a career year - that doesn’t mean he’s not good, or can’t have another good season, but I didn’t buy that he could maintain last year with any consistency and here it’s showing. He’s a #4, and we have like three of those between him, Canning and Anderson on a good day.

That’s partially why I wanted to move him last deadline. It was a seller’s market, and I bet we coulda got something like a second Chase Silseth and Ky Bush for him, plus another piece, and while that woulda dinged the MLB team in 2023, we would’ve still had more semi-MLB ready arms for depth or to flip in another trade. Wish we had signed a Bassitt or an Eovaldi instead of Anderson, and counted on a deeper stable of kid arms to round out the back of the rotation. Would’ve been a lot riskier but better overall for the depth and potential of the MLB club.

[ScottT]

He doesn't suck.  He hasn't pitched well....  average, I'd say...   but he's also had some bad luck.   Especially today.   Yet, he finished his outing strong.   

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

But why what? To have more good players. Perry’s looked pretty friggin’ good bringing back O’Hoppe and Moniak and drafting Neto and Silseth and Bachman and Joyce. Feeling good about his ability to find not just good young players, but good young players - prospects even - that can contribute at the MLB level almost instantly.

Based off what he got for Thor and Marsh, I’d think he could’ve gotten 2-3 good youngsters for Sandoval that would’ve been contributing to the MLB club as much, if not more, than Sandoval has this season, or the millions sunk into Anderson and, to a degree, Urshela, players he could’ve conceivably addressed in a trade involving someone like Sandoval or Ward, maybe even Suarez. That money could’ve been used elsewhere. 

Heck wonder if Sandoval + could’ve landed Arraez. He probably had similar trade value to Pablo Lopez last summer/this winter.

[Blarg]

I'll chalk today up as dead arm stage. Almost every pitcher has that about mid season. Previous start he went 5 innings giving up 3 runs at Coors Feild and the game before that he went 7 shutout innings. He has been the losing pitcher in games he should have won along with 4 no decisions. Today he earned the L. 

[Angelsjunky]

I voiced concern about Sandoval like two months ago and heard crickets. I pointed to a velocity drop, which got worse, but has rebounded somewhat in his last five starts, although not to 2022 levels.

Now he's given up 5+ ER in three of his last five starts. He's gone Heaney on us.

[ScottT]

Did anyone watch the game today?

[Angel Oracle]

“CJ” Sandoval

[Jeff Fletcher]

51 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I'll chalk today up as dead arm stage. Almost every pitcher has that about mid season. Previous start he went 5 innings giving up 3 runs at Coors Feild and the game before that he went 7 shutout innings. He has been the losing pitcher in games he should have won along with 4 no decisions. Today he earned the L. 

His velocity was up today. 

[drpiranha]

He is a ground ball pitcher. A lot of the hits he gives up now would not have been hits last year with the shift in effect and the ability to play an infielder on the outfield grass,increasing their range. That being said, his control has been crap and he misses his spots by too much to get hitters to chase.

[ScottT]

Wins, losses, no decisions.

The box score is obsolete, my friends.

[Taylor]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

His velocity was up today. 

Haha, Blarg got owned.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

But why what? 

Quote

I think that’s part of the problem. He was good last year, but is not a #2 SP. he doesn’t have the durability or composure or command. The stuff can be great, but it’s an arsenal that’s not built to hold up over 30 GS/180 IP consistently. And putting #2 expectations on him wasn’t good for him, and wasn’t good roster construction on Perry’s part. He puts way too much pressure on himself.

I like Sandoval but last year was not a break-out, it was more of a career year - that doesn’t mean he’s not good, or can’t have another good season, but I didn’t buy that he could maintain last year with any consistency and here it’s showing. He’s a #4, and we have like three of those between him, Canning and Anderson on a good day.

You are answering the question of why he sucks this year by asserting that he really sucked last year, he just had us all fooled. There isn't any evidence or support for this position in your post. So I am just wondering what you are basing that on.

[Angel Oracle]

4.81 ERA and near 1.50 WHIP are nothing but mediocre numbers halfway through the season.

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

You are answering the question of why he sucks this year by asserting that he really sucked last year, he just had us all fooled. There isn't any evidence or support for this position in your post. So I am just wondering what you are basing that on.

No. He isn’t pitching much differently this year than he has outside of last year. 

Last year’s production gave us expectations that weren’t gonna be met.

He’s not bad - he’s just just not as good as last year hinted - whether it was luck or flukey performance at the top of his level for longer than usual. Reminds me of Hector Santiago. Good stuff but just not built to be a legit, consistent SP. the makeup and consistency simply aren’t there. If you just banked on him giving you 5 IP at best and had a bullpen built to accommodate that and he was slotted in around #4, he’d be great in that role - but that’s not where he was in our minds or on this roster.

Edited June 30, 2023 by totdprods

[Deek]

His pitching wasn’t great today, but he had a lot of bad luck… Just a bad combo…

 

I’m not his biggest fan, but hanging the “L” on Patrick today is analogous to calling Rendon injury prone when he gets hit by a pitch….

[totdprods]

Part of my rant is also just about how Perry built the rotation this winter. I feel like the biggest thing that will be our downfall is failing to shore up with the rotation with someone either better than Tyler Anderson, or at very least, not adding another decent vet to the rotation like a Cueto type. I love the depth in our young starters but it was super risky banking on that youth if for no other reason than it being in flux and inconsistent for half the year.

[AngelsLakersFan]

7 minutes ago, Deek said:

His pitching wasn’t great today, but he had a lot of bad luck… Just a bad combo…

 

I’m not his biggest fan, but hanging the “L” on Patrick today is analogous to calling Rendon injury prone when he gets hit by a pitch….

.... Sandoval pitched like shit and Rendon is injury prone....

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

I'll chalk today up as dead arm stage. Almost every pitcher has that about mid season. Previous start he went 5 innings giving up 3 runs at Coors Feild and the game before that he went 7 shutout innings. He has been the losing pitcher in games he should have won along with 4 no decisions. Today he earned the L. 

That seemed to be the issue in May, his velocity seemed to bottom out the last two weeks of the month -- his velocity was up a bit today.  He's had a weird season.

[Inside Pitch]

44 minutes ago, drpiranha said:

He is a ground ball pitcher. A lot of the hits he gives up now would not have been hits last year with the shift in effect and the ability to play an infielder on the outfield grass,increasing their range. That being said, his control has been crap and he misses his spots by too much to get hitters to chase.

I haven't paid enough attention to argue whether or not he's seen balls get through that didn't last year -- but his BABIP allowed this season was actually lower than last season entering today's game.

[totdprods]

If you want me to offer an actual reasoning, I think hitters just figured out to wait for his very average fastball and to not bite on his change and slide. As a result he isn’t striking anybody out and he’s just trying to get by with a hope and a prayer on a fastball that just isn’t that good. 

Hitters adjusted and he either isn’t able to re-adjust or simply doesn’t have the skill to work around it. 

[gurn67]

It would be interesting to see how many guys that participated in the World Baseball Classic are performing well below what they were projected to at the start of the season.

Trout, Rengifo and Sandoval were all projected to be much better than they have been. 

Without going through the rosters, here's some others off the top of my head: Tim Anderson, Lance Lynn, Trea Turner, etc..

[REDneck]

2 hours ago, ScottT said:

He doesn't suck.  He hasn't pitched well....  average, I'd say...   but he's also had some bad luck.   Especially today.   Yet, he finished his outing strong.   

He got lit up and finished his outing as much half ass as you can.

You saw something strong? Because he got doinked?

[AngelsFaninGA]

It seems like this year in particular the pitchers who previously could rely on less than dominant stuff (Sandoval. Anderson, extreme cases like Manoah) are getting exposed. Like if you can't throw a 95+ mph fastball with solid secondary pitches you're gonna have a real tough time.