August 1st, 2023 Trade Deadline: Does Ohtani get traded despite Arte's denials??

[floplag]

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

I have no idea.  I think it's possible. That's enough for me.  It doesn't even matter what I think.  I believe the Angels think they can contend and their best chance is with Ohtani. That's all that matters.  Quite frankly, I like that they think they can contend.

And I expect them to add pieces by the deadline. 

As do i, one has nothing to do with the other... they could trade him and add others, they dont have to give up over it.  It isnt binary. 

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

As do i, one has nothing to do with the other... they could trade him and add others, they dont have to give up over it.  It isnt binary. 

If they trade Ohtani, don't you think that sends a message to the team that they don't believe they can contend? 

 

[warped]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

Ruth was traded.

Wayne Gretzky was traded in his prime.

so yes or no?

[Dtwncbad]

The Angels would have to crater in the standing AND Ohtani would have to tell the Angels definitely he isn’t re-signing here for the team to trade him.

Outside of both of those two specific things happening, he isn’t getting traded.

[Hubs]

40 minutes ago, floplag said:

I see it as the exact opposite.  The time for that effort passed on opening day.
Hes literally giving away the golden ticket. 
This club has needs, he could fill a number of them them overnight instead of overpaying for them in free agency.
Lets not kid ourselves we dont have a ton more help coming from the farm the next couple years.
So he walks, we get nothing, and were even worse off back on the never ending 1 year contract carousel ... how has that worked for us so far?
 

This is just virtually untrue. Let's look at the Mookie Betts trade. They got Alex Verdugo and Jeter Downs and Connor Wong.  Four years later, Downs is with the Nationals after being waived. Verdugo is in the lineup most days and hitting to a robust .844 OPS. Wong is their catcher and is doing ok. 

So one pretty good and one average to good player for the reigning 2018 AL MVP. That's actually an ok return. 

 

 

[Hubs]

Just now, Hubs said:

This is just virtually untrue. Let's look at the Mookie Betts trade. They got Alex Verdugo and Jeter Downs and Connor Wong.  Four years later, Downs is with the Nationals after being waived. Verdugo is in the lineup most days and hitting to a robust .844 OPS. Wong is their catcher and is doing ok. 

So one pretty good and one average to good player for the reigning 2018 AL MVP. That's actually an ok return. 

 

 

But it's far from the production they were getting from Betts, and the trade was muted somewhat by the inclusion of Price, who was owed a lot of money, but had also had arm troubles. 

Nolan Arredondo for the Rockies netted them basically nada. One solid pitcher, who started strong but then struggled, and a bunch of prospects.

 

[Angels 1961]

7 minutes ago, Hubs said:

But it's far from the production they were getting from Betts, and the trade was muted somewhat by the inclusion of Price, who was owed a lot of money, but had also had arm troubles. 

Nolan Arredondo for the Rockies netted them basically nada. One solid pitcher, who started strong but then struggled, and a bunch of prospects.

 

Not the same production they would have got from Betts. Money not spent on Betts and be used for other players.

[floplag]

35 minutes ago, T.G. said:

If they trade Ohtani, don't you think that sends a message to the team that they don't believe they can contend? 

 

That would depend entirely on any other moves made.

[floplag]

15 minutes ago, Hubs said:

This is just virtually untrue. Let's look at the Mookie Betts trade. They got Alex Verdugo and Jeter Downs and Connor Wong.  Four years later, Downs is with the Nationals after being waived. Verdugo is in the lineup most days and hitting to a robust .844 OPS. Wong is their catcher and is doing ok. 

So one pretty good and one average to good player for the reigning 2018 AL MVP. That's actually an ok return. 

 

 

Exactly, i didnt say with all stars, and youre never going to get full value especially not this late... but you get a couple good solid ML ready kids back at the right spots its a massive help.

[Hubs]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

Exactly, i didnt say with all stars, and youre never going to get full value especially not this late... but you get a couple good solid ML ready kids back at the right spots its a massive help.

I'd prefer Ohtani down the stretch, a chance to resign him and if he leaves the second round pick. That's worth more to me and to this team than a couple of mid grade prospects and/or a young major leaguer. 

[ScottT]

It's funny how many people assume he'll sign with the highest bidder.  

He didn't before.  

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

That would depend entirely on any other moves made.

I like their chances with Ohtani because I have no idea what they'd get back if they traded him. What they have is pretty amazing and gives them the best chance to win, IMO.  Ohtani just demonstrated what can happen when he dominates a game.  

[mmc]

 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, mmc said:

 

It’s not going to stop the 500 stupid articles about trading him from being written.

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

It’s not going to stop the 500 stupid articles about trading him from being written.

I'll take the over.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

I'll take the over.

Next week writer: “Perry are you still not trading Ohtani?”

Perry:  “Seriously?  I just made this clear last week.”

Writer:  “So has anything changed?”

Perry:  (rolls eyes) “Next question please” 

Writer headline the next morning:

“Minasian No Longer Saying He Won’t Trade Ohtani”

[floplag]

46 minutes ago, T.G. said:

I like their chances with Ohtani because I have no idea what they'd get back if they traded him. What they have is pretty amazing and gives them the best chance to win, IMO.  Ohtani just demonstrated what can happen when he dominates a game.  

No one is questioning that.. but the reality is hes a pending FA.  If he was literally anyone else, would you feel the same?
We know what well get if he walks for nothing.
Its likely moot anyway Perrys comments today made it fairly clear its not happening so he better get busy getting him some help

[disarcina]

5 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

@disarcina

I think you’re overvaluing what the Angels would get in return for Ohtani and undervaluing what it be worth to actually make the playoffs (in terms of the overall fan experience, the money the Angels make from it, and the amount that it would increase their chances of re-signing Ohtani). It would also send a terrible message to the players (including future players you might want to sign) if you trade Ohtani away while you’re in the race. 

You’re probably also undervaluing the draft pick they’d get for him. (Zach Neto and Ben Joyce were “just draft picks.”) Also there’s a bunch of extra draft pool money you get with that pick.

under-valuing the draft pick -- a decent argument.  My take is that a team in the running to sign him long term but still behind the LA DODGERS as his top landing spot, might be willing to seriously over pay to have a two month rental for the stretch run plus a two month lobbying campaign to sign him as a F/A.  I think the Angels need to entertain offers. And if  the offers are as underwhelming as suggested. above (and that's clearly been the history) then you don't pull the trigger and keep him to the end - fully realizing he's signing somewhere else  (up the. freeway) next year.

[Stradling]

3 hours ago, floplag said:

Oh well, a sandwich pick after the first round in the draft makes i all soooo much better.   and those players will really help... in a few years. 

Ok realistically what do you think they get in a trade for Ohtani?  

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, Hubs said:

This is just virtually untrue. Let's look at the Mookie Betts trade. They got Alex Verdugo and Jeter Downs and Connor Wong.  Four years later, Downs is with the Nationals after being waived. Verdugo is in the lineup most days and hitting to a robust .844 OPS. Wong is their catcher and is doing ok. 

So one pretty good and one average to good player for the reigning 2018 AL MVP. That's actually an ok return. 

 

 

And that’s a full year of Mookie.   

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

That would depend entirely on any other moves made.

Would it?  How do they improve if what you said is true that they have basically no more help coming from the farm?  How do they get better overnight while also trading Ohtani?  

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, disarcina said:

under-valuing the draft pick -- a decent argument.  My take is that a team in the running to sign him long term but still behind the LA DODGERS as his top landing spot, might be willing to seriously over pay to have a two month rental for the stretch run plus a two month lobbying campaign to sign him as a F/A.  I think the Angels need to entertain offers. And if  the offers are as underwhelming as suggested. above (and that's clearly been the history) then you don't pull the trigger and keep him to the end - fully realizing he's signing somewhere else  (up the. freeway) next year.

Are we ten games back and i missed it?

[Hubs]

2 hours ago, disarcina said:

under-valuing the draft pick -- a decent argument.  My take is that a team in the running to sign him long term but still behind the LA DODGERS as his top landing spot, might be willing to seriously over pay to have a two month rental for the stretch run plus a two month lobbying campaign to sign him as a F/A.  I think the Angels need to entertain offers. And if  the offers are as underwhelming as suggested. above (and that's clearly been the history) then you don't pull the trigger and keep him to the end - fully realizing he's signing somewhere else  (up the. freeway) next year.

Tim when did you become a dodgers fan? Seriously. I’m asking. 

[IheartLA]

Lol we’re winning and everyone is talking about trading away our best player. If we were in the position we are right now and Ohtani was on another team and we had the chance to acquire him as a rental we would be trying to do just that to go for the WS. The fan base would be ecstatic if that were the case. He’s not going anywhere till the off season.

[floplag]

14 hours ago, Stradling said:

Would it?  How do they improve if what you said is true that they have basically no more help coming from the farm?  How do they get better overnight while also trading Ohtani?  

Youre smarter than this.  You know very well what "other moves" means.