Going all in, what does that look like?

[Stradling]

I think all in looks something like Giolito and Grandal along with maybe a serviceable relief pitcher.  Grandal would be in the catching equation and Thaiss might spend more time at 1st base.  Giolito would pencil in to the rotation. I don’t see a Goldschmidt type of trade.  

[totdprods]

30 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I think all in looks something like Giolito and Grandal along with maybe a serviceable relief pitcher.  Grandal would be in the catching equation and Thaiss might spend more time at 1st base.  Giolito would pencil in to the rotation. I don’t see a Goldschmidt type of trade.  

I don't think that's dramatically different than Goldschmidt and Flaherty, FWIW...

Goldschmidt: .871 OPS, 2.3 bWAR, ~$26m  this year and next due (not counting what's paid this year)
Grandal: .738 OPS, 0.3 bWAR, ~$18m due this year (not counting what's paid)

Flaherty: 4.64 ERA, 1.58 WHIP, 0.9 bWAR, $5.4m this year
Giolito: 3.54 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 2 bWAR, $10m due this year (not counting what's already paid)

White Sox you'd get a solidly better pitcher and a hitter that might not offer huge upgrade. 3.4 bWAR added.
Cardinals you'd get a much better hitter and a relatively redundant arm...2.3 bWAR. 

Biggest difference is Goldschmidt is under contract next year still. Otherwise, the money (not pro-rated) is similar, ~$28m v. $32m.

I think the Angels match better with the Cardinals' needs in terms of prospects too. 

And Wallach and Thaiss have done well. How much might Grandal add, even if Thaiss moves to 1B? 
I think Flaherty will improve outside of STL too.

Thinking bigger picture too...acquiring Goldschmidt takes a huge potential Houston target away. He's a hometown guy for them and they're somewhat treading water. It's a strong move psychologically speaking too...I would think acquiring Goldschmidt would go much further in energizing the team and Ohtani's future than Yasmani Grandal. Goldschmidt being here next year also makes it much easier to potentially lose the offense of Renfroe, Urshela and Ohtani. It addresses a '24 need. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by totdprods

[floplag]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

We went from sell everything and dismantle the team to "going all in" in a matter of four days.

No, not really, i was just curious since people were suggesting we were going for it what that meant.

Were certainly not there with the current roster so with the assumption that additions are to be made i wondered what people thought that would or should look like to qualify as going all in.

For me its go big or go home.  The problem with that is we dont really have the farm for it or the budget, which is why ive assumed we would not, but IF im wrong, and i hope i AM, Arte is either going to have to blow the tax or were going to lose some people we dont want to.

IMO we need another high leverage reliever no matter what else we do, weve got to get production from 1B, possibly another SP.  Id like to get a short term answer at C as I dont have a ton of faith in Thaiss/Wallach to maintain the production to date but i also dont see a ton of options there so it may not matter, Grandal maybe?

THAT, to me, is going all in... no one could question the effort or desire if we made something like that happen. It probably decimates whats left of the farm which many wont like but considering its already bottom 5 that doesnt say much.

Goldschmidt, Stroman, Chapman, Grandal, other similar guys ... Is any of that realistic, i wish i knew, i kinda doubt it if im being honest, i guess well see. 

[Stradling]

55 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don't think that's dramatically different than Goldschmidt and Flaherty, FWIW...

Goldschmidt: .871 OPS, 2.3 bWAR, ~$26m  this year and next due (not counting what's paid this year)
Grandal: .738 OPS, 0.3 bWAR, ~$18m due this year (not counting what's paid)

Flaherty: 4.64 ERA, 1.58 WHIP, 0.9 bWAR, $5.4m this year
Giolito: 3.54 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 2 bWAR, $10m due this year (not counting what's already paid)

White Sox you'd get a solidly better pitcher and a hitter that might not offer huge upgrade. 3.4 bWAR added.
Cardinals you'd get a much better hitter and a relatively redundant arm...2.3 bWAR. 

Biggest difference is Goldschmidt is under contract next year still. Otherwise, the money (not pro-rated) is similar, ~$28m v. $32m.

I think the Angels match better with the Cardinals' needs in terms of prospects too. 

And Wallach and Thaiss have done well. How much might Grandal add, even if Thaiss moves to 1B? 
I think Flaherty will improve outside of STL too.

Thinking bigger picture too...acquiring Goldschmidt takes a huge potential Houston target away. He's a hometown guy for them and they're somewhat treading water. It's a strong move psychologically speaking too...I would think acquiring Goldschmidt would go much further in energizing the team and Ohtani's future than Yasmani Grandal. Goldschmidt being here next year also makes it much easier to potentially lose the offense of Renfroe, Urshela and Ohtani. It addresses a '24 need. 

The upgrade isn’t Grandal over Thaiss, the upgrade is Thaiss over Walsh.  

[totdprods]

Just now, Stradling said:

The upgrade isn’t Grandal over Thaiss, the upgrade is Thaiss over Walsh.  

Or Goldschmidt over Walsh?

[Stradling]

Just now, totdprods said:

Or Goldschmidt over Walsh?

Yea, but I don’t think the team is going to take on $25 million in next year salary for Goldschmidt with the Ohtani situation up in the air.  

[Stradling]

It seems like a consolation type of acquisition next year if they can’t re-sign Ohtani.  Spend the money that would have gone to Shohei on Goldy and then sign a starter.

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea, but I don’t think the team is going to take on $25 million in next year salary for Goldschmidt with the Ohtani situation up in the air.  

And that's very realistic...but Arte also spent some this winter, and I think there's a chance he recognizes this season could still be his last 'hurrah' with 'his' team. All told, adding $25m to next year isn't a huge financial commitment. Ohtani is at $30m this year already. Renfroe and Urshela are nearly the price of Goldschmidt, salary-wise. I'm not saying it isn't expensive, or isn't pushing past the realm of what he's done financially, but I don't think it's insurmountable, especially when the Angels are in their last possible Troutani year and in a legitimately competitive place, maybe their best shot in recent years. If there was a time to go for it, this is basically it. Somewhat protects against PR hit of losing Ohtani this winter... "well we acquired the reigning NL MVP!"

Edited June 15, 2023 by totdprods

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

who's we

We as a community Angelswin

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, stormngt said:

We as a community Angelswin

Oh. THOSE guys.

[stormngt]

16 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea, but I don’t think the team is going to take on $25 million in next year salary for Goldschmidt with the Ohtani situation up in the air.  

Ironically, bringing Goldschmidt might improve our chances to extend Ohtani

[floplag]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

Ironically, bringing Goldschmidt might improve our chances to extend Ohtani

This
If there was EVER A time for Arte to go ham, its now.
Yeah some tax but not a full seasons worth and ups your chanced to keep him inthe fold.
Its crunch time for Arte IMO.

[Presto]

I think the best move we can make is definitely getting godly and flaherty, definitely possible as well. Then I’d like to add another arm to deepen the and alzolay has been excellent this year. 
Wouldn’t mind replacing soto for Rada and Bachman for bush. These deals give us a decent chance at a Ws chase imo.

[ten ocho recon scout]

8 hours ago, totdprods said:

And that's very realistic...but Arte also spent some this winter, and I think there's a chance he recognizes this season could still be his last 'hurrah' with 'his' team. All told, adding $25m to next year isn't a huge financial commitment. Ohtani is at $30m this year already. Renfroe and Urshela are nearly the price of Goldschmidt, salary-wise. I'm not saying it isn't expensive, or isn't pushing past the realm of what he's done financially, but I don't think it's insurmountable, especially when the Angels are in their last possible Troutani year and in a legitimately competitive place, maybe their best shot in recent years. If there was a time to go for it, this is basically it. Somewhat protects against PR hit of losing Ohtani this winter... "well we acquired the reigning NL MVP!"

Not to mention you have to think Arte pulled his listing off the market because he wants to end things on a better note. That's with the high probability Ohtani walks.

Goldschmidt would make sense the way Arte moves. He's a name. A draw.

I still don't see it happening though. Strads idea is a lot more realistic, and more in line what I was thinking.

And I'd be happy if it happened.

[Fake Chow]

I'm just excited we are talking about adding rather than selling.  I'm enjoying reading all the scenarios guys....keep it up.

[Swordsman78]

19 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yea, but I don’t think the team is going to take on $25 million in next year salary for Goldschmidt with the Ohtani situation up in the air.  

Why?  Because it would make too much sense?

[Swordsman78]

21 hours ago, totdprods said:

who's we

The team "we" all support

[Erstad Grit]

21 hours ago, Stradling said:

I think all in looks something like Giolito and Grandal along with maybe a serviceable relief pitcher.  Grandal would be in the catching equation and Thaiss might spend more time at 1st base.  Giolito would pencil in to the rotation. I don’t see a Goldschmidt type of trade.  

hard pass on Grandal

He looks good right now, but it would be the first year he's even hit over .250 since 2012. 

[Angels 1961]

Nothing will happen till end of July. Teams will see where they are and needs. I would hate to give up that young catcher Quero. We did steal Moniak last year. Maybe some team is looking for speed and elite defense in OF. We could trade former 4th OF Philips

[Angels 1961]

I would also hate to give up Rada.

[Hubs]

If they need help at 3rd perhaps they can swing a trade for Ryan McMahon and Brad Hand from the Rockies?

Flaherty, Hand, McMahon? Seems like a reasonable trade haul. 

Not a ton of salary after this year (McMahon due the bulk), but he's a legit player, can play 2nd and 3rd. OPS of +116 this year, Been on a tear the last month after starting slow...Under contract for this year and four more, 6/70 starting with 2022...(5/9/12/12/16/16).. so about 58M still owed over 4.5 years....won't break the bank.

Hits better in Coors, obviously, but pretty decent numbers away, and again, he's a hot hitter.

BTV value is negative, but the Rockies would ask for 2-3 decent prospects or to take Blackmon's Deal (and give them 2-3 lower tier prospects.

Hand is only making 2, with a 7M option for next year.

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

hard pass on Grandal

He looks good right now, but it would be the first year he's even hit over .250 since 2012. 

Because it would lessen the acquisition cost and it would allow Thaiss to play 1st more.