Blowpen tally

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

Someone please tell Quijada that this isn’t Dodgeball.

I’m sure he knows, but I shoot him a message. 

[Angel Oracle]

49 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’m sure he knows, but I shoot him a message. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

De nada

[Chuck]

@Docwaukee folks on social media are saying it’s only 5 blown games by the Angels bullpen, but I was going off your 6 games blown in this thread from over a week ago which would now put us at 7. 
 

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Chuckster70 said:

@Docwaukee folks on social media are saying it’s only 5 blown games by the Angels bullpen, but I was going off your 6 games blown in this thread from over a week ago which would now put us at 7. 
 

 

Loup, Herget, Estevez, Davidson, Herget, Tepera, Moore, Quijada

I was just going by straight up losses attributed to the pen.  So currently the tally is at 8.  

in one of those, the defense failed and in others the offense failed to score more than a couple three/four runs.  So not all on the pen.  

I think they are what they are @Chuckster70.  

A collection of decent relievers with no real studs or standouts.  A bunch of guys who probably end up with an era/fip from the mid 3's to maybe to low 4's.  And a lot of that era for each is gonna come from outings like Quijada had last night.  They're all sort of interchangeable.  And you just gotta hope that the one you pick for high leverage isn't having a bad hair day.  

Nevin is forced to guess right on a daily.  That's friggin rough man.  

I don't know the exact math, but let's say a really good reliever gives up a run or two every 5th or 6th time out and every decent one ever 4th or 5th time.  If it's Moore one day, Estevez the next, and Herget a couple days later, you better pray they aren't all in high leverage.  The issue is that all of them including others are pitching in high leverage.  

And to someone's point earlier, with a pen like this, the starters have to get deeper.  If not, it just increases the chances that one of your exclusively mediocre guys is gonna have a bad day.  



 

[Redondo]

Blowpen strikes again

[Blarg]

On 4/18/2023 at 1:51 AM, tomsred said:

The bullpen is bipolar at the moment.  Estevez, Moore, Quijada, and Wantz are performing to expectations, Herget, Loup, Tepera, and Barria are not.

Anderson and Suarez are not performing at the moment among the starters.

 

A week later and this post is still accurate.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I like this shirt. 

The face is literally everyone when they wait for and then see who is coming in from the pen.

[Amazing Larry]

No need for the blowpen back in the day...

 

[Stradling]

So through the first month it certainly appears Estevez and Moore are very solid additions.  

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

So through the first month it certainly appears Estevez and Moore are very solid additions.  

Devenski will be also

[DMVol]

45 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Devenski will be also

I think Silseth could be a big piece of the puzzle if he can adjust to the difference in routine/workload…he has good stuff, he could be important….

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

So through the first month it certainly appears Estevez and Moore are very solid additions.  

At the very least I was hoping that we'd come away from the month with some idea of who to put out there when.  

Estevez should be the closer.  

Moore is the close and late lefty.

Wantz is probably the best they've got right now for the close and late RHer.  

I think Silseth can grow into some high leverage.  

Davidson is if the game is close but we need some innings

Loup is mop up or if the game is close in the 5th/6th if you don't have Davidson. 

Barria is a straight long man.  Try to keep us in the game or pitch 3 innings if we have a massive lead.  

Devenski is TBD.  He's got no options so my guess is that when Tepera returns, they'll send Silseth back down.  Which would suck in my opinion.  

They're a 7th/8th lockdown guy away from being pretty good.  

 

[Revad]

59 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

Devenski is TBD.  He's got no options so my guess is that when Tepera returns, they'll send Silseth back down.  Which would suck in my opinion. 

They knew this decision was coming when they chose to bring up Devenski since, as you pointed out he has no options.  If Silseth goes down that leaves Wantz as the only guy in the pen who has options.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Revad said:

They knew this decision was coming when they chose to bring up Devenski since, as you pointed out he has no options.  If Silseth goes down that leaves Wantz as the only guy in the pen who has options.

Devenski's stuff looked pretty good on paper today.  

They're getting very close to where they're going to have to start making some hard decisions in terms of player performance.  

They lead all of baseball in the total number of batters the pen has face in high leverage.  111 times and the next closest is at 94.  I had the argument with several on this board where it was stated that a better offense would ease up on the bullpen which I argued against.  The offense is allowing us to make games closer.  Granted, the number of close games the Angels have played is for sure an anomaly.  But you can't sit around and wait for that to go away so you feel better about using Jaime Barria.  

Having two long guys and a lack of optionable players is just too hard to work around.  It's already impacted them in the WL column.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Devenski is TBD.  He's got no options so my guess is that when Tepera returns, they'll send Silseth back down.  Which would suck in my opinion.

Nevin said on Friday night Wantz had something bothering him. Wantz apparently said he was fine on Saturday, but then he didn't pitch very well, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out there is something wrong with him by Tuesday, in which case he'd go on the IL when Tepera is activated.

Just a guess.

[Angels 1961]

9 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Nevin said on Friday night Wantz had something bothering him. Wantz apparently said he was fine on Saturday, but then he didn't pitch very well, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out there is something wrong with him by Tuesday, in which case he'd go on the IL when Tepera is activated.

Just a guess.

Halo fans have something bothering them. Let them keep best pitchers in BP. DFA Tepera keep Silseth and Wantz in the pen.

[Jeff Fletcher]

8 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Halo fans have something bothering them. Let them keep best pitchers in BP. DFA Tepera keep Silseth and Wantz in the pen.

I get the frustration. 
 

Loup and Tepera have not been good. But each has like 500+ games in the big leagues that tell you they will be better. And if you DFA them they’re gone forever and you’ve hitched your wagon to guys who have pitched like 50 games (Wantz) or 10 (Silseth). Maybe they’ll be better. Maybe they won’t. 
 

You recall that both Loup and Tepera were pretty good for the last 2-3 months of last season. 
 

Anyway, I’m glad I am not making these decisions. 
 

also, stay tuned for a bullpen story coming in about 30 minutes. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Jeff Fletcher

[BTH]

15 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Nevin said on Friday night Wantz had something bothering him. Wantz apparently said he was fine on Saturday, but then he didn't pitch very well, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out there is something wrong with him by Tuesday, in which case he'd go on the IL when Tepera is activated.

Just a guess.

That, unfortunately, makes sense.

But it’d probably have to be a significant injury for them to do that, since he’s been one of their best relievers and losing him for at least 13-15 days would be a blow.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 minute ago, Trendon said:

That, unfortunately, makes sense.

But it’d probably have to be a significant injury for them to do that, since he’s been one of their best relievers and losing him for at least 13-15 days would be a blow.

Pitching in the majors is hard. If there's just a little thing that's bothering him enough that he can't be 100 percent of himself, that could be difference between being good and being bad. It's very easy to imagine a scenario in which a compromised Wantz is actually worse than Loup.

Again, I am just speculating based on...

1. He had some issue on Friday and

2. He didn't pitch well on Saturday.

[BTH]

1 minute ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Pitching in the majors is hard. If there's just a little thing that's bothering him enough that he can't be 100 percent of himself, that could be difference between being good and being bad. It's very easy to imagine a scenario in which a compromised Wantz is actually worse than Loup.

Again, I am just speculating based on...

1. He had some issue on Friday and

2. He didn't pitch well on Saturday.

Your speculation makes sense based on the context clues.

My point was just that because Wantz had been so valuable to the pen, they might not want to put him on the 15-day IL if they think a few days of rest would resolve any health issue.

I guess you could also make the case that since he’s been so valuable, you want to make sure he’s 100%. But only they know if he is 100% now, and how long it’d take for him to get back to 100% if he isn’t.

[BTH]

6 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Loup and Tepera have not been good. But each has like 500+ games in the big leagues that tell you they will be better.

They have a long track record, but they also had better stuff in those 500+ games than they do now. As guys get older, their production is eventually gonna fall off a cliff.

Starting with Loup, whose is now 35:

• His K% is down and his BB% is up. His K% and BB% in 2023 is worse than what it was in 2022, and that was significantly worse than what it was in his amazing 2021 season.

2021: 26.1% K%, 7.3% BB%

2022: 20% K%, 8.5% BB%

2023: 18.2% K%, 9.1% BB%

• His best pitch in that 2021 season was his sinker, and the quality of that pitch has dropped off significantly. It’s down 1.3 mph from 2021 and his vertical movement, which had above average movement in 2021 and 2022, has below average movement in 2023.

• His cutter got whiffs in 2021 (28%) and 2022 (37.7%), but now gets hardly any (7.7%).

Edited May 1, 2023 by Trendon

[Jeff Fletcher]

16 minutes ago, Trendon said:

His best pitch in that 2021 season was his sinker, and the quality of that pitch has dropped off significantly. It’s down 1.3 mph from 2021 and his vertical movement, which had above average movement in 2021 and 2022, has below average movement in 2023.

• His cutter got whiffs in 2021 (28%) and 2022 (37.7%), but now gets hardly any (7.7%).

I think it's totally reasonable to DFA him if he's not showing signs of life after 15-20 innings, but I think 8 innings is too small of a sample size. He's 3 innings away from having a 3.97 ERA. Three innings!

You guys (maybe not you @Trendon) were ready to dump Drury a week ago. Some even wanted Renfroe gone after one week. Or Moore gone after spring training.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Jeff Fletcher

[BTH]

6 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think it's totally reasonable to DFA him if he's not showing signs of life after 15-20 innings, but I think 8 innings is too small of a sample size. He's 3 innings away from having a 3.97 ERA. Three innings!

It probably is, but I don’t think the leash should be very long.

With a player who is 35, I think you need to have a shorter leash because the possibility is there that they just don’t have the same ability they once had and won’t get it back.

[Angels 1961]

45 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think it's totally reasonable to DFA him if he's not showing signs of life after 15-20 innings, but I think 8 innings is too small of a sample size. He's 3 innings away from having a 3.97 ERA. Three innings!

You guys (maybe not you @Trendon) were ready to dump Drury a week ago. Some even wanted Renfroe gone after one week. Or Moore gone after spring training.

I did not like Philips signing in Winter.