Putting the past 10 seasons in perspective.

[Swordsman78]

This little graphic hits home and not in a good way.  No reason at all that the Halos should have performed so poorly over the past 10 seasons.  

Was the problem not enough sense of urgency to win now,  hence not going over the luxury tax threshold, or too much sense of urgency to win now which resulted in horrible mega contracts?

There has to be viable path for a quick turnaround.  I don't think many have the patience to wait another 5 years while they off load and rebuild.

[Angel Oracle]

Halos and ChiSox the biggest disappointments by far of the past decade, given their payrolls!

ChiSox also had 7 straight losing seasons from 2013-2019.   At least they made the post-season in 2020-2021.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[Jason]

The main issue for me is the failure to draft and develop the talent needed to be competitive. The FAs they’ve signed have been hit and miss and they went after big names in hopes to sell tickets more so than win games. If the new owner values player development then you will see things turn around 

[Jason]

I should include scouting in there as well 

[Taylor]

It's funny how many different ways there are to say that the Angels suck.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

There has to be viable path for a quick turnaround.  I don't think many have the patience to wait another 5 years while they off load and rebuild.

This is what people have been saying the past 10+ years.

[Warfarin]

10 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

This is what people have been saying the past 10+ years.

To be fair, having a new owner at least provides a sense of optimism that change can occur quickly.  Just need to find another Cohen or Guggenheim ...

[AngelsLakersFan]

17 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

To be fair, having a new owner at least provides a sense of optimism that change can occur quickly.  Just need to find another Cohen or Guggenheim ...

Sure. This gets back to the whole irrationality of people suggesting the Angels shouldn't spend big. It's the whole reason people are excited about new ownership - the hope that a new owner will spend to fill the holes that the current owner won't. If we are just getting another Arte Moreno trade Ohtani and get on with it already.

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Sure. This gets back to the whole irrationality of people suggesting the Angels shouldn't spend big. It's the whole reason people are excited about new ownership - the hope that a new owner will spend to fill the holes that the current owner won't. If we are just getting another Arte Moreno trade Ohtani and get on with it already.

My greatest hope is that whoever takes over invests a tremendous amount of money on player development.  The splashy moves get attention, but the teams that can consistently churn out great young (i.e. cheap) players are the ones that stay relevant the longest.  The Dodgers spend quite a bit of money, but they are significantly buoyed by all the young guys they pump out.  The Rays, who have virtually no payroll, do the same in a brutal division.  Whoever our new owner is, I would really like to see a heavy investment in all that is entailed when it comes to player development.  Signing big named free agents will just be the cherry on top, so to speak.

[UndertheHalo]

I didn’t need a picture to know the team sucks shit.  Thanks tho.  But ya.  I’m aware that they’ve been fucking losers for a decade. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I didn’t need a picture to know the team sucks shit.  Thanks tho.  But ya.  I’m aware that they’ve been fucking losers for a decade. 

Visual AIDS bro

[Blarg]

Looks like the Yankees have won as many pennants as the last Angels have the last 10 years. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

6 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

This little graphic hits home and not in a good way.  No reason at all that the Halos should have performed so poorly over the past 10 seasons.  

Was the problem not enough sense of urgency to win now,  hence not going over the luxury tax threshold, or too much sense of urgency to win now which resulted in horrible mega contracts?

There has to be viable path for a quick turnaround.  I don't think many have the patience to wait another 5 years while they off load and rebuild.

Crazy thing there is Texas. Since this goes back to 12. And just prior to that they were back to back World Series contenders.

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Sure. This gets back to the whole irrationality of people suggesting the Angels shouldn't spend big. It's the whole reason people are excited about new ownership - the hope that a new owner will spend to fill the holes that the current owner won't. If we are just getting another Arte Moreno trade Ohtani and get on with it already.

I'll add here. And this just popped into my head with the Correa signing.

If say we're saving our money to lock Ohtani up, great. Hopefully we do.

And the sad part is it doesn't actually make us any better. Him leaving hurts for sure. But locking him up doesn't fix any problem we currently have.

[Docwaukee]

It was a setup for failure.  

- little to almost zero emphasis on drafting and developing until the last few years
- convoluted leadership structure
- big splashes without accompanying small splashes.  Big waves tip the boat.  A series of small ones can be ridden ashore.  (I think I just made that up)
- year to year mentality
- all resources funneled to the major league club
- caught in between where spending more could have helped to at least improve tradeable assets if not get more wins.  
- zero flexibility financially regardless of the state of the team
- put themselves in a position where a little bad luck or poor fortune was more catastrophic than it needed to be.  

Even working against tough odds, the team is fortunately in an ok spot.   The new owner isn't exactly getting their asset in mint condition but if they don't cheap up and half ass the restoration, you can squint and see a really nice product there somewhere.  

[Redondo]

3 hours ago, Warfarin said:

My greatest hope is that whoever takes over invests a tremendous amount of money on player development.  The splashy moves get attention, but the teams that can consistently churn out great young (i.e. cheap) players are the ones that stay relevant the longest.  The Dodgers spend quite a bit of money, but they are significantly buoyed by all the young guys they pump out.  The Rays, who have virtually no payroll, do the same in a brutal division.  Whoever our new owner is, I would really like to see a heavy investment in all that is entailed when it comes to player development.  Signing big named free agents will just be the cherry on top, so to speak.

I am always in favor of building and sustaining the farm

Develop our own talent to replenish the roster

Fill in the gaps with FA's, not rely on them

[Angelsjunky]

Historically speaking, the Angels have generally been mediocre - rarely very good or very bad, generally in the 70-85 win range - except for a brief spell in 1979-86 and 2002-09, as well as a sprinkling of other seasons in which they were at least competitive (1989, '95, 2012-15). Franchise win% is .498...meaning, the definition of mediocre.

A lot of folks started as Angels fans in the 00s, which was their best era. Basically, people age 20ish to 35ish, as well as bandwagoners who jumped on after 2002. But if you're 35ish or older, you remember 2001 and before, so the suckitude of the last decade or so is just par for the course.

But the last seven years have been particularly bad, especially relative to a few factors:

• The memory of 2002-09, when it seemed like the org had jumped into the big leagues and were going to be perennial contenders.
• No postseason berth since 2014, no postseason win since 2009.
• 2011-15 still being somewhat competitive (4 of 5 years winning 85 or more games), but no winning seasons since then.
• The presence of the greatest player of the generation (and now the addition of Ohtani).
• A consistently top 10 payroll.
• A farm system consistently considered one of the worst--often the worst--in baseball for the last 10 years.

All that combined, and it is hard to argue against the view that the Angels are one of the most poorly run organizations in baseball.

We're also on our third GM in the last seven years, and fifth in the last 15. Bill Stoneman built the 00s team, Reagins dismantled it (with help from Arte); Dipoto presided over some solidly good teams, but destroyed the farm system, Eppler sorta-kinda rebuilt the farm, but couldn't move the dial on the major league club, and so far Minasian has essentially been Eppler 2, though with a few promising differences: He seems to be better at drafting, and is less hesitant to make player moves. But in the end, the proof is in the pudding; he's halfway through a four-year contract, so presumably has two years to start showing results.

Given that the one common factor throughout is Arte Moreno, a change of ownership is good news - at least in theory. 

Anyhow, If I'm Perry, I'm looking at trying to get the Angels back to 85+ wins and wildcard contention in 2023, at least into September or so, and further improvement from there on out - hopefully become real players by 2025 or so. With no winning record since 2015, he really only has to get to 82 wins to say, "Look, we're getting better!" But a wildcard berth would put further weight behind that sentiment - to guys like Trout and Ohtani, but also to us, the fans.

 

 

[floplag]

14 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

This little graphic hits home and not in a good way.  No reason at all that the Halos should have performed so poorly over the past 10 seasons.  

Was the problem not enough sense of urgency to win now,  hence not going over the luxury tax threshold, or too much sense of urgency to win now which resulted in horrible mega contracts?

There has to be viable path for a quick turnaround.  I don't think many have the patience to wait another 5 years while they off load and rebuild.

The biggest problem with all that isnt waiting 5 years, its that weve been told thats what they have been doing for the last 10.
But yeah, that graphic pretty much sums up in my view why we seem unable to sign players without over bidding. 
Would you want to play here given all that?  Be honest...   and before anyone plays the Ohtani card lets not forget we were the only teams that could give him what he wanted and where, we didnt earn that, we defaulted into it.  

[Angel Oracle]

8 hours ago, Blarg said:

Looks like the Yankees have won as many pennants as the last Angels have the last 10 years. 

Skanks are now in their 3rd longest drought without a WS appearance (13 years).

Only two longer streaks are 18 (1903-1920) and 14 (1982-1995).

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Skanks are now in their 3rd longest drought without a WS appearance (13 years).

Only two longer streaks are 18 (1903-1920) and 14 (1982-1995).

The Yankees signed Judge but did they do anything else notable? They could be miss the playoffs in that division. They could also sign Rodon but I’m guessing he’s going to LA or SF. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

17 hours ago, Jason said:

The main issue for me is the failure to draft and develop the talent needed to be competitive. The FAs they’ve signed have been hit and miss and they went after big names in hopes to sell tickets more so than win games. If the new owner values player development then you will see things turn around 

The first point is the most important. With one of the worst farm systems in baseball, the Angels neither developed talent for themselves nor developed trade capital to acquire established players who could have helped the parent club. Free agents have been a mess. For whatever reason, once a player signs a big money contract here, he either ceases to produce or becomes injury prone. The Pujols contract hampered the club for almost this entire time period.