How do we fix this realistically?

[Angels 1961]

Angels are like a broken car on the side of the road. Call tow truck take to junk yard and will be sold for parts. Good news halos off today gained half game in WC. Bad news Baltimore caught Angels in standings. Maybe Orioles will be another team that will buy some parts.

[Angel Oracle]

It’s like I’ve said.

The ONLY thing that will rescue this franchise is either Arte Moreno becoming a true baseball team owner, and allowing the money to be there for scouting and development, good FO, good manager and coaches, and solid  support players, and getting out of the way….or

Sell the team to someone who will.

Otherwise, we’re screwed like the Pirates, O’s, and Reds.

You don’t run a baseball franchise like an advertising firm.   In baseball, big splashes are only meant to be the last piece to the puzzle, not the whole puzzle.

Nineteen years, and he still doesn’t get it.

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[Stradling]

Whenever we complain about Arte it almost always starts off with speculation. Here’s what we know.  The Angels haven’t been successful.  He doesn’t pay minor league players as much as other teams. What else do we know, as a fact?  

[Slegnaac]

31 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Whenever we complain about Arte it almost always starts off with speculation. Here’s what we know.  The Angels haven’t been successful.  He doesn’t pay minor league players as much as other teams. What else do we know, as a fact?  

He owns a radio station. 

Which primarily exists to broadcast Angels' games.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

He owns a radio station. 

Which primarily exists to broadcast Angels' games.

Ok. I’ll add he made his fortune in billboards.  But I was more focused on the baseball side of things.  

[Lou]

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

It’s like I’ve said.

The ONLY thing that will rescue this franchise is either Arte Moreno becoming a true baseball team owner, and allowing the money to be there for scouting and development, good FO, good manager and coaches, and solid  support players, and getting out of the way

And like I've said:

You have no idea how much he spends on those things.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

And like I've said:

You have no idea how much he spends on those things.

Kind of my point about speculation. Remember when we had “8” scouts?  It quickly became AW fact. 

[tdawg87]

42 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Kind of my point about speculation. Remember when we had “8” scouts?  It quickly became AW fact. 

Not sure about "8", but this actually happened:

https://theathletic.com/1832198/2020/05/23/rosenthal-angels-aggressively-furloughing-employees-scouts-just-ahead-of-the-draft/

Quote

Angels scouting director Matt Swanson will run the Angels’ draft, assisted by nine others listed in the media guide — five regional supervisors and four cross-checkers, who provide second opinions on players area scouts evaluate.

 

[Angel Oracle]

54 minutes ago, Lou said:

And like I've said:

You have no idea how much he spends on those things.

All I know is, something has caused so many bad acquisitions/signings to happen over the past decade.

Whatever it is needs to stop, or else it is rinse and repeat.

[AngelsFaninGA]

We've had 4 consecutive failed GM's. So clearly the people sitting above the GM in the hierarchy have no idea how to identify qualified candidates.

But clearly we're all just speculating whiners and the team is fine

[Angel Oracle]

6 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Not sure about "8", but this actually happened:

https://theathletic.com/1832198/2020/05/23/rosenthal-angels-aggressively-furloughing-employees-scouts-just-ahead-of-the-draft/

 

So the question is, how many scouts have been hired since the draft returned to 20 rounds a year ago?

[tdawg87]

Just now, AngelsFaninGA said:

We've had 4 consecutive failed GM's. So clearly the people sitting above the GM in the hierarchy have no idea how to identify qualified candidates.

But clearly we're all just speculating whiners and the team is fine

You aren't allowed to have an opinion unless you know every single fact about it.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

So the question is, how many scouts have been hired since the draft returned to 20 rounds a year ago?

I believe we have a significant amount more now. Can't find a link though.

[Stradling]

9 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Not sure about "8", but this actually happened:

https://theathletic.com/1832198/2020/05/23/rosenthal-angels-aggressively-furloughing-employees-scouts-just-ahead-of-the-draft/

 

Yes, during Covid that happened.  And they had just furloughed those guys, and the draft work was presumably finished.  Also there were five rounds of draft that year.  I’m not making excuses, I’m just adding context.  

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

We've had 4 consecutive failed GM's. So clearly the people sitting above the GM in the hierarchy have no idea how to identify qualified candidates.

But clearly we're all just speculating whiners and the team is fine

That is exactly what I said douchebag.  I mean, I probably should have said, “The Angels haven’t been successful” oh wait, I did. 

[tdawg87]

Just now, Stradling said:

Yes, during Covid that happened.  And they had just furloughed those guys, and the draft work was presumably finished.  Also there were five rounds of draft that year.  I’m not making excuses, I’m just adding context.  

There were several teams who didn't do that.

Quote

Other teams, including several in seemingly weaker financial positions than the Angels, are making greater commitments to keeping staffers employed, according to sources and published reports. The Phillies announced they will retain all their employees through October; the Giants and Blue Jays made the same pledge through Oct. 1, and the Brewers ensured their baseball-operations staff will stay intact for the entire season.

The Twins, Cardinals and White Sox are retaining all their employees through June 30. The Pirates are holding off on furloughs in baseball operations for the foreseeable future. The Tigers and Rockies have signaled they will continue paying staffers for as long as possible without setting specific end dates.

So yes, you are making excuses.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

You aren't allowed to have an opinion unless you know every single fact about it.

No, you can have whatever opinion you want.  But most of what we talk about has become AW fact.  Speculate away.  

[Stradling]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

There were several teams who didn't do that.

So yes, you are making excuses.

No, tdawg, I am simply adding context.  

[tdawg87]

Just now, Stradling said:

No, tdawg, I am simply adding context.  

[T.G.]

We know scouts were "furloughed," but isn't that temporary?  They weren't fired, right?

Not that it matters to me or that I care... because regardless, the team has sucked.

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, True Grich said:

We know scouts were "furloughed," but isn't that temporary?  They weren't fired, right?

Not that it matters to me or that I care... because regardless, the team has sucked.

Yea, I don’t know.  I don’t know if they retained them, hired different scouts.  I believe the story was it took them longer to bring them back.  But recently we found out by looking at the media guide that they have 40ish scouts these days.  At least I think that is what we discussed a month or two ago in one of the threads.  

[AngelsFaninGA]

15 minutes ago, Stradling said:

That is exactly what I said douchebag.  I mean, I probably should have said, “The Angels haven’t been successful” oh wait, I did. 

They haven't been successful? No way! Thanks for the mindless reductionism. 

It's the equivalent of saying the sun is hot and then calling everyone else a whiner when they make additional arguments because they aren't trained astrophysicists. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

They haven't been successful? No way! Thanks for the mindless reductionism. 

It's the equivalent of saying the sun is hot and then calling everyone else a whiner when they make additional arguments because they aren't trained astrophysicists. 

Yea, it is exactly like that. Sorry if you felt like I called you a whiner.  Have a blessed day.

[mmc]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Whenever we complain about Arte it almost always starts off with speculation. Here’s what we know.  The Angels haven’t been successful.  He doesn’t pay minor league players as much as other teams. What else do we know, as a fact?  

We know that he caps his GM at about $190 in payroll which is still far from the luxury tax.  If he was serious about winning like all these other big market owners he wants to hang with are, he’d be right up at it or over it

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, mmc said:

We know that he caps his GM at about $190 in payroll which is still far from the luxury tax.  If he was serious about winning like all these other big market owners he wants to hang with are, he’d be right up at it or over it

Yes, we know he has a budget.