Most you would give up to dump Upton’s entire contract?

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, DMVol said:

It’s good depth if everybody is healthy…..

Yea I guess my point is if you can’t really expect 6-8 deep at outfield. 

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Personally I don’t know if Trout, Adell, Marsh, Upton and Ward is atrocious outfield depth.  I guess other teams could have six or seven guys, I guess. 

I was going to say, I think our outfield depth is strong. 

[DMVol]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea I guess my point is if you can’t really expect 6-8 deep at outfield. 

Maybe pick up a fringe guy for AAA depth as spring training winds down….Upton a pretty good bet to get hurt at any point…..Lageras was a good pick up last year….

[eligrba]

My uninformed expectation is that the starting outfield will be Upton, Trout and Adell with Ward being the fourth outfielder.  Ward will step become the regular left fielder by the middle of May when Upton struggles.  This will remain until someone sustains an injury.  If an outfielder experiences an injury, Marsh will be first up with the club.  I can see Marsh sticking around and Upton being DFA'd if Marsh produces just little more offense than what Upton can.

In other news...Who is tracking the spring training numbers for Pujols? 

[eligrba]

10 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Maybe pick up a fringe guy for AAA depth as spring training winds down….Upton a pretty good bet to get hurt at any point…..Lageras was a good pick up last year….

Don't forget Walsh can play outfield....sort of.  Maybe a fringe guy who can play the infield, like a toolsy player?

[UndertheHalo]

I would give up zero.  Uptons contract is bad, but he’s needed.  Upton for sure has a place on the team.  We’ve got a bunch of unknowns running out there this year.  It would be cool if they all have good years.  Probably won’t happen like that. 

[DMVol]

38 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Don't forget Walsh can play outfield....sort of.  Maybe a fringe guy who can play the infield, like a toolsy player?

May fit the report about some interest in JD Davis….although not that pricey….also kind of fits Matt Duffy, who has played some OF but is primarily an INF…..

[HanfordGuy]

Upton, Bachman, Coleman Crow and Jordyn Adams for Montas or Lucas Giolito. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, HanfordGuy said:

Upton, Bachman, Coleman Crow and Jordyn Adams for Montas or Lucas Giolito. 

Upton won’t approve a trade to Oakland, but possibly Chicago 

[Stradling]

Upton for Hosmer and Gore.

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, eligrba said:

My uninformed expectation is that the starting outfield will be Upton, Trout and Adell with Ward being the fourth outfielder.  Ward will step become the regular left fielder by the middle of May when Upton struggles.  This will remain until someone sustains an injury.  If an outfielder experiences an injury, Marsh will be first up with the club.  I can see Marsh sticking around and Upton being DFA'd if Marsh produces just little more offense than what Upton can.

In other news...Who is tracking the spring training numbers for Pujols? 

I somewhat agree with this except I think Ward will start in right and Adell in left.

[Hubs]

And as far as moving Upton, the only reason to do that is if you think they will spend the money this year. Which, who would they spend it on?

He's a FA next year and will not be back.

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Hubs said:

And as far as moving Upton, the only reason to do that is if you think they will spend the money this year. Which, who would they spend it on?

He's a FA next year and will not be back.

Even leaving aside his no trade clause, there is zero chance that the Angels could trade Upton without having to pay a massive portion of his contract--unless you're also willing to toss in Adell, Marsh, Detmers, etc.  So I don't even really see it as a matter of who they would spend the extra money on.  I don't think there would BE any significant money saved.

[Blarg]

10 hours ago, mmc said:

In October I didn't think this was necessary to be able to build a team good enough to seriously compete.  Now I think it is

You are about 5 months late. 

[Dtwncbad]

Upton isn’t getting traded for a few reasons.

His no trade clause gives him protection against going anywhere he doesn’t want to go.  It appears he doesn’t want to go anywhere.

At this point the Angels need his upside if there is any possible rebound.

The “dump the salary” idea isn’t really necessary.  The team can afford his salary and it is over soon enough.

Could he maybe maybe approve of a deal to go the Padres or Dodgers mid season?  Maybe.  But that would probably only be if Upton is healthy and productive and the Angels are out of it.

So I really doubt he is going anywhere.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Dtwncbad

[Angelsjunky]

It won't happen, but pretending it could, the question is: how much value would Upton's playing time have relative to that of Adell, Marsh, or Ward? Because those four players sharing playing time (with the exception of maybe a few stray starts at 1B and DH).

Meaning, is X games of Upton worth more than X games of any of those three?

You'd have to dial back Father Time to 2018 for the answer to that to be more than "unlikely." In 2018, he had 2.9 WAR in 145 games played. My guess is that if given 145 games, each of Ward, Marsh, and Adell would produce at least 2 WAR, probably in the 2-3 range, but maybe higher (especially if either Marsh or Adell breaks out in a big way).

Since 2018, or in 2019-21, Upton has produced -0.1 WAR in 194 games played. Meaning, he's been a replacement level player for the last three seasons. We can be nice and say, "but injury!" But that's part of Upton's profile now: he's played only about half of the games of the last three seasons. When you add it up, he's 34 and injury prone, producing replacement level performance. At this point, I'd put him behind all three in terms of probable value, and closer to AAA guys like Lund, Cabbage, Sierra, even Braxton Martinez.

So then the question becomes: How much money is a replacement guy worth? And then how much do you factor in clubhouse dynamics? 

All things told, and assuming a team would only offer up a fringe (or non) prospect, I'd say if a team said they'd pay $10M of his contract, I'd take that in a heartbeat. If they offered to pay $5M, I'd probably do it. Less than that, and it would be questionable.

Meaning, I think Upton's value to the team in 2022 is probably something like $5M or less.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Angelsjunky

[greginpsca]

I would give them Adams, if the A's would take on $5 mil of Upton's contract. If not, they can Pujols him later on.

[Angelsjunky]

9 minutes ago, greginpsca said:

I would give them Adams, if the A's would take on $5 mil of Upton's contract. If not, they can Pujols him later on.

No way. Adams is worth more than $5M, and Upton doesn't have zero value.

[greginpsca]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

No way. Adams is worth more than $5M, and Upton doesn't have zero value.

Unless Adams starts showing a hit tool, his ceiling is as a 4th of'er. Those guys are a dime a dozen. And rarely are they worth $5 mil. If we could get anyone to pay down $5 mil on his deal would be awesome, but highly unlikely. When rosters are cut back to 26, and Upton is hitting .205, there is a good chance he could be released and we would pay him all $28 mil.  If i am Arte, i would rather get stuck paying $23 mil rather than $28 mil .

[Stradling]

Why though?  Why trade Adams so Arte can save $5 million?  The offseason is basically over as it relates to adding significant payroll.  

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, greginpsca said:

Unless Adams starts showing a hit tool, his ceiling is as a 4th of'er. Those guys are a dime a dozen. And rarely are they worth $5 mil. If we could get anyone to pay down $5 mil on his deal would be awesome, but highly unlikely. When rosters are cut back to 26, and Upton is hitting .205, there is a good chance he could be released and we would pay him all $28 mil.  If i am Arte, i would rather get stuck paying $23 mil rather than $28 mil .

The operative word is "unless." Adams' fate is not sealed. I think we'll know a lot more about his future outlook in a few months. I'm not ready to write him off yet, and actually think he's around a 50-50 chance to take a big step forward and reclaim at least some of his prospect cred.

Anyhow, it isn't all or nothing. He could be a great 4th outfielder behind Trout, Marsh, and Adell. 

 

[Erstad Grit]

10 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Upton isn’t getting traded for a few reasons.

His no trade clause gives him protection against going anywhere he doesn’t want to go.  It appears he doesn’t want to go anywhere.

At this point the Angels need his upside if there is any possible rebound.

The “dump the salary” idea isn’t really necessary.  The team can afford his salary and it is over soon enough.

Could he maybe maybe approve of a deal to go the Padres or Dodgers mid season?  Maybe.  But that would probably only be if Upton is healthy and productive and the Angels are out of it.

So I really doubt he is going anywhere.

This is all why I think only for Bauer makes sense

Dodgers do it to get out of the Bauer mess. They have a 10 SP depth chart so they have moved on anyway.

Upton does it because LA is kinda the cool place to play right now

Angels do it because they have the OF depth and the money is already spent so why not attempt to score with an ace lottery ticket. I mean the guy was found bot guilty right?

[Docwaukee]

The off season is over.  The possibility of shedding Upton's salary has long since passed and probably never existed.  I would be surprised if it came up in any conversation that Perry's had with any other team.  

At this point, Upton is a replacement player that makes 28m.  I like the person but the player for this team has been terrible.  

So to answer the OP, is that it's irrelevant because he's essentially a candidate to get released.   All you can hope for is that you really don't have to put him in the lineup because Adell, Marsh and Ward are healthy.  And if he does get PAs, he doesn't suck the way he has the last three years.  Any sort of positive impact you could squeeze out of that 28m at this point would be a small miracle.  

He's had a nice career that is now essentially over.  

To put it another way, if they didn't give him the additional season, he'd either be retired or on a minor league deal.  

[Warfarin]

I agree with the prevailing sentiment that it's unlikely Upton would be moved for any reason at this point.

The way I look at it - Upton will be off the books next year, and a large chunk of the money he earns will go to Ohtani next year, as Ohtani is due for a gigantic raise (maybe a ~20mil raise or so?).

So when Upton is off the books, I won't really think of it as they have 28mil more to spend, but rather, a good amount of that will go to Ohtani's final arbitration year.  Eyeballing the salaries for next year, as well as possible arbitration figures, I think they should have enough to retain Syndergaard (or sign someone else in that same financial category), and probably have some money to help fortify the pen and bench (or get another SP instead).

I think in terms of SS, we will probably have to hope for someone to emerge from the farm system or the current group we have, or alternatively, that Fletcher ends up being decent enough defensively to hold down the spot.  I don't think we will be a player for the SSs on the market next year (Turner, Boegarets, and likely Correa).  

[disarcina]

unless we DFA Upton - he's not marketable - especially after the walk out and new collective bargaining agreement,.

Angels might be able to move him in a deadline deal but sort of doubt it -- most teams would probably just wait to see if the Halos would just cut him loose and possibly pick him up and pay just the MLB minimum of his salary for the rest of the year.  maybe some NL team who needs a DH.