With all the swirl around FA pitching...

[Deek]

With all the complaining and blaming about bringing in new pitching - it got me to thinking about a few things:

1 - With free agents, you need to have two willing partners (the club and pitcher - duh).  So many people on the board (though often I wonder if it's just a loud minority), lay the blame at the feet of Arte and the GM - as if it's their decision alone.  We've seen countless examples of evidence to the contrary - on our roster alone: A) Thor had offers for more $, but chose the Angels because he liked the fit (that doesn't make the team/GM that offered over market a failure - they put the most competitive offer on the table, and the player had an agenda that wasn't based solely on $) B) Rendon had a comparable (I actually vaguely remember it was for more $) offer from the Dogs... but at his press conference he went out of his way to say he chose the Angels because he didn't like the "LA vibe" C) Shohei chose the Angels because of his relationship with then GM Eppler and the "family vibe" of the club... none of those examples are solved by an owner offering more money when they know they're the highest bidder (albeit you can always throw $10M / year to help, but that doesn't seem very plausible - why would you bid against yourself?).  I think the board gets a bit too carried away with all the "meddling" owner talk and dismisses so many other factors that are in play: relationships, personal preferences, etc...

2 - We have Shohei in our rotation.  I really think this point doesn't receive its due consideration from the AW hoard.  Shohei drives us to a 6-man rotation.  That works to our benefit when pursuing a pitcher like Thor who's coming off of surgery and could significantly benefit from a reduced workload (a very nice strategy of Perry's that was brought to light when the signing was announced - and one I hope he can replicate in the future - my 1st hope was: why not make a run at Verlander under the same premise).  BUT if you're a pitcher that in any way sees value in volume stats - it's probably a tougher sell: you won't have the opportunity to win as many games, rack up K's, IPs, etc - And even if you're more of a sabermetric minded pitcher and you see yourself as a #1 type and in the Cy Young hunt on a perennial basis - you can't dismiss the number of voters who still value volume stats - and how that could impact you adding hardware to your trophy room.  AND for many pitchers, the 6-man rotation is a paradigm that's counter culture to the philosophy they've trained and developed on.  I don't want to see Shohei ever pitch/play for another team, so in no way am I advocating we change the current structure... but I suspect it makes Perry's job more difficult in the pursuit of FA pitchers - and it doesn't stop with the rotation - there's a trickle down effect into the bullpen as well.... so...

3 - I'm starting to think it makes more sense for us to go the trade route.  I think we'll need to bring guys in via trade with multiple years of club control to prove out the system for a couple of years before we'll have even footing in the pursuit of FA pitchers. I'm not suggesting we give up in the pursuit (you never know when someone WANTS to be in SoCal - see: Lorenzen) or give Perry a pass (it's his job to get creative to get the deal done), but I don't think the Front Office can ignore what I think is a likely reality...

 

Do your worst...

[HanfordGuy]

[UndertheHalo]

Found Arte’s alt.  

[Blarg]

Point number 1 plus $$$$$. The Angels didn't get Cole, Bauer or Scherzer because of money. Pure and simple those guys went for the most loot possible. And i really don't want that guy on the team since mercenaries are not necessarily good guys to share a bench with, Bauer being the best example. 

Look, the Angels picked up Syndergaard, which I think was a good move. I had hoped for a long term deal but even on a one year they didn't pay stupid money. Scherzer was stupid money when they still have multiple roster spots to consider on the bench and pen.

So for all of the hand wringing there are 29 other teams out there with the same roster needs. Someone is going to be sitting in the last chair while the others are out. Tossing a fit because we weren't the last chair on secondary picks is pretty dumb. 

[jsnpritchett]

[HanfordGuy]

54 minutes ago, Deek said:

With free agents, you need to have two willing partners

 

[Taylor]

[ThisismineScios]

4 hours ago, Deek said:

With all the complaining and blaming about bringing in new pitching - it got me to thinking about a few things:

1 - With free agents, you need to have two willing partners (the club and pitcher - duh).  So many people on the board (though often I wonder if it's just a loud minority), lay the blame at the feet of Arte and the GM - as if it's their decision alone.  We've seen countless examples of evidence to the contrary - on our roster alone: A) Thor had offers for more $, but chose the Angels because he liked the fit (that doesn't make the team/GM that offered over market a failure - they put the most competitive offer on the table, and the player had an agenda that wasn't based solely on $) B) Rendon had a comparable (I actually vaguely remember it was for more $) offer from the Dogs... but at his press conference he went out of his way to say he chose the Angels because he didn't like the "LA vibe" C) Shohei chose the Angels because of his relationship with then GM Eppler and the "family vibe" of the club... none of those examples are solved by an owner offering more money when they know they're the highest bidder (albeit you can always throw $10M / year to help, but that doesn't seem very plausible - why would you bid against yourself?).  I think the board gets a bit too carried away with all the "meddling" owner talk and dismisses so many other factors that are in play: relationships, personal preferences, etc...

2 - We have Shohei in our rotation.  I really think this point doesn't receive its due consideration from the AW hoard.  Shohei drives us to a 6-man rotation.  That works to our benefit when pursuing a pitcher like Thor who's coming off of surgery and could significantly benefit from a reduced workload (a very nice strategy of Perry's that was brought to light when the signing was announced - and one I hope he can replicate in the future - my 1st hope was: why not make a run at Verlander under the same premise).  BUT if you're a pitcher that in any way sees value in volume stats - it's probably a tougher sell: you won't have the opportunity to win as many games, rack up K's, IPs, etc - And even if you're more of a sabermetric minded pitcher and you see yourself as a #1 type and in the Cy Young hunt on a perennial basis - you can't dismiss the number of voters who still value volume stats - and how that could impact you adding hardware to your trophy room.  AND for many pitchers, the 6-man rotation is a paradigm that's counter culture to the philosophy they've trained and developed on.  I don't want to see Shohei ever pitch/play for another team, so in no way am I advocating we change the current structure... but I suspect it makes Perry's job more difficult in the pursuit of FA pitchers - and it doesn't stop with the rotation - there's a trickle down effect into the bullpen as well.... so...

3 - I'm starting to think it makes more sense for us to go the trade route.  I think we'll need to bring guys in via trade with multiple years of club control to prove out the system for a couple of years before we'll have even footing in the pursuit of FA pitchers. I'm not suggesting we give up in the pursuit (you never know when someone WANTS to be in SoCal - see: Lorenzen) or give Perry a pass (it's his job to get creative to get the deal done), but I don't think the Front Office can ignore what I think is a likely reality...

 

Do your worst...

We don't have the prospect capital to just go for any pitcher. We are more at the Means, Gray, Bassitt, Maeda level for a trade than the Sixto-Castillo-Marquez level. Which is fine--get a solid #3 guy, and keep developing Detmers, Bachman, Bush, Suarez, and the no-namers (Crow-Junk etc) to see what hits. But the idea that it's ace or bust is silly. If we stay healthy, we're trotting out Ohtani-Syndergaard-Sandoval for a series. That's pretty good. 

[Hubs]

12 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

We don't have the prospect capital to just go for any pitcher. We are more at the Means, Gray, Bassitt, Maeda level for a trade than the Sixto-Castillo-Marquez level. Which is fine--get a solid #3 guy, and keep developing Detmers, Bachman, Bush, Suarez, and the no-namers (Crow-Junk etc) to see what hits. But the idea that it's ace or bust is silly. If we stay healthy, we're trotting out Ohtani-Syndergaard-Sandoval for a series. That's pretty good. 

We can get any of the guys from either level, our system is not that barren, we just may not like the price for the Sixto-Castillo-Marquez level.

 

[ThisismineScios]

Yeah, I guess I mean I personally don't like the price. I shouldn't speak in absolutes like that. I just mean I don't think, gun to my head, I want to give up Adell/Marsh and Detmers/Bachman and Paris/Jackson/Vera for one of those guys. I get that we do not have a dependable 33 start Ace, but I think we will be ok without one. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

On 12/2/2021 at 4:30 PM, Deek said:

2 - We have Shohei in our rotation.  I really think this point doesn't receive its due consideration from the AW hoard.  Shohei drives us to a 6-man rotation.  That works to our benefit when pursuing a pitcher like Thor who's coming off of surgery and could significantly benefit from a reduced workload (a very nice strategy of Perry's that was brought to light when the signing was announced - and one I hope he can replicate in the future - my 1st hope was: why not make a run at Verlander under the same premise).  BUT if you're a pitcher that in any way sees value in volume stats - it's probably a tougher sell: you won't have the opportunity to win as many games, rack up K's, IPs, etc - And even if you're more of a sabermetric minded pitcher and you see yourself as a #1 type and in the Cy Young hunt on a perennial basis - you can't dismiss the number of voters who still value volume stats - and how that could impact you adding hardware to your trophy room.  AND for many pitchers, the 6-man rotation is a paradigm that's counter culture to the philosophy they've trained and developed on.  I don't want to see Shohei ever pitch/play for another team, so in no way am I advocating we change the current structure... but I suspect it makes Perry's job more difficult in the pursuit of FA pitchers - and it doesn't stop with the rotation - there's a trickle down effect into the bullpen as well.... so...

I don't buy this. 

Rotations are shuffled all the time. It would be very easy, if they had signed someone like Max Scherzer, to pitch him on 4 days rest while having Ohtani pitch on 5 days rest. Minasian said flat out that they would accommodate any starter whose resume warranted pitching more often. It's not rocket science.

[Tank]

On 12/2/2021 at 8:35 PM, Taylor said:

please keep your personal videos to yourself.

[Taylor]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

please keep your personal videos to yourself.

I got that from Adam's computer.

[Tank]

5 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I got that from Adam's computer.

and why does adam have your personal videos on his computer? that seems weird.

[Taylor]

Just now, Tank said:

and why does adam have your personal videos on his computer? that seems weird.

I'm not one to kink shame.

[Tank]

Just now, Taylor said:

I'm not one to kink shame.

then i suggest you avoid the soccer forum.

[Angelsfan1984]

AW in full boredom mode. Arguing about advertising and yogurt guzzling. At least @Jeff Fletcher gets paid to talk about this. The rest of us are either losers or spend too much time working from home being unproductive. Except for me, I’m awesome AF.

 

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

AW in full boredom mode. Arguing about advertising and yogurt guzzling. At least @Jeff Fletcher gets paid to talk about this. The rest of us are either losers or spend too much time working from home being unproductive. Except for me, I’m awesome AF.

 

The only person not being unproductive is @Lou.

[Lou]

39 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

The only person not being unproductive is @Lou.

Wake up early... get shit done... retire early.

[Angelsfan1984]

eff that! Wake up late, get fired, post on AW. Die happy because you’re not @Angels 1961

[Jason]

34 minutes ago, Lou said:

Wake up early... get shit done... retire early.

That was my grandfather. He went fishing by noon almost every day 

[tdawg87]

41 minutes ago, Lou said:

Wake up early... get shit done... retire early.

Have white people mow your lawn.

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

That was my grandfather. He went fishing by noon almost every day 

No doubt a great man. 

[T.G.]

26 minutes ago, Jason said:

That was my grandfather. He went fishing by noon almost every day 

I'd rather wake up and go fishing all day, but I'd settle for his gig.

[Jason]

50 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I'd rather wake up and go fishing all day, but I'd settle for his gig.

Yep, he was a farmer so he got up at zero dark thirty every morning and got his work done