OC Register: Angels have discussed moving Mike Trout off center field

[angelsnationtalk]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

Or they are reacting to what has become a trend with him and injuries.   Teams don't always move guys off a position because he's decrepit, smart teams have been doing it earlier to try to extend a player's prime.

If that's the case then move the dude to 1st base and wrap him in bubble wrap.... haha

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

It is always confusing to me, but Adell has 0.153 years of service time. Maybe they want to keep that below 0.5, so if we assume they wouldn't want to play him more than 0.34 of a year, that's about 62 days (.34 x 183 days).

The final game of the year is Oct 3, so if we go back 62 days from that we get to August 2, I believe - or thereabouts. So we're not far from that, and I could see them calling him up anytime after that.

I'm pretty sure that .153 means 153 days.  Not a fraction of 1 season.  1yr of service is 172 days.  And there are 184 days available during a single season.  So if they don't call him up at all this year then they still need to wait 13 before calling him up next year to get that additional year of control back.  

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm pretty sure that .153 means 153 days.  Not a fraction of 1 season.  1yr of service is 172 days.  And there are 184 days available during a single season.  So if they don't call him up at all this year then they still need to wait 13 before calling him up next year to get that additional year of control back.  

Fuck, you're right. I think I was wrong about this a few months ago, too. Middle age, I guess.

But that makes his callup last year even more idiotic - he obviously wasn't on the team for 153 games, but it was evidently pro-rated based on the length of the season.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[Dtwncbad]

I really don’t care if Trout plays CF or LF.  However he best fits given the other pieces.  Who cares?   It is his bat I want in the lineup.

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Fuck, you're right. I think I was wrong about this a few months ago, too. Middle age, I guess.

But that makes his callup last year even more idiotic - he obviously wasn't on the team for 153 games, but it was evidently pro-rated based on the length of the season.

it was prorated.  The ratio works out as far as I can tell in that he was called up after about 10 games.  

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Fuck, you're right. I think I was wrong about this a few months ago, too. Middle age, I guess.

But that makes his callup last year even more idiotic - he obviously wasn't on the team for 153 games, but it was evidently pro-rated based on the length of the season.

days not games.  but yeah.  it was utterly ridiculous.  My math might have been off about the 13 day thing earlier as well.  As I'm not sure you can accumulate more than 172 days in any give year or if those 12 additional day would count toward the first year.  For instance, If he's up all year next year then he'll be at 1.165.  Then if he stays up he'll be at 3.005 after 2023.  

so if he doesn't come up this year and starts the year at mlb it could be an additional 60 days above the 172 he could accumulate over the next 5 years.  If my math is right then he's need to stay down for the first 42 days of the season next year in order for it to essentially be his first season and for the team to get 6 years after that.  

One way or another they either lost a year or he's gonna be a super 2 for sure.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

No one is talking about rushing him back.  The “rushing him back” timeline ended four weeks ago. 

How is it not rushing him back if they don't think he is healthy enough to play CF?

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

How is it not rushing him back if they don't think he is healthy enough to play CF?

They aren’t saying he isn’t healthy enough to play CF, they think to take some pressure off they might have him play a less strenuous position.  How is it rushing him back when its 3 weeks past the longer estimation of how long he would be out?

[AngelsLakersFan]

Just now, Stradling said:

They aren’t saying he isn’t healthy enough to play CF, they think to take some pressure off they might have him play a less strenuous position.  How is it rushing him back when its 3 weeks past the longer estimation of how long he would be out?

Didn't he just see a doctor a couple days ago because his leg still hurts?

What do they need to take 'pressure off of' if it's not his hurt leg?

This team is toast, no reason to bring Trout back for 3 games only to blow out his Achilles.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Didn't he just see a doctor a couple days ago because his leg still hurts?

What do they need to take 'pressure off of' if it's not his hurt leg?

This team is toast, no reason to bring Trout back for 3 games only to blow out his Achilles.

I highly doubt they’ll bring them back before he’s ready.

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Didn't he just see a doctor a couple days ago because his leg still hurts?

What do they need to take 'pressure off of' if it's not his hurt leg?

This team is toast, no reason to bring Trout back for 3 games only to blow out his Achilles.

Come on.  Do you really think the Angels would bring him back on a timeline that risks him blowing out his Achilles?

Take a step back from the cliff.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I highly doubt they’ll bring them back before he’s ready.

Then he should be in center field.

Now maybe there is more to this, and this has nothing to do with his health and it's more to do with how they feel about their defensive deployment. Maybe it's easier to tell Trout that they want him in left to 'take the pressure off of his leg' rather than, 'we prefer Marsh in centerfield.'

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Come on.  Do you really think the Angels would bring him back on a timeline that risks him blowing out his Achilles?

Take a step back from the cliff.

Uh, yes I would. I mean, I understand that the Angels have a great track record when it comes to keeping their players healthy, so they should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I'm really surprised I'm on an island on this one... The article literally says they are considering this because "Trout doesn't feel like he could push it right now."  

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

Uh, yes I would. I mean, I understand that the Angels have a great track record when it comes to keeping their players healthy, so they should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I'm really surprised I'm on an island on this one... The article literally says they are considering this because "Trout doesn't feel like he could push it right now."  

So the Angels are showing caution (delaying the return already and discussing a safer, lower risk option for him on the field when he does return) and you process it as reckless.  OK.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

So the Angels are showing caution (delaying the return already and discussing a safer, lower risk option for him on the field when he does return) and you process it as reckless.  OK.

I'm just going off the reporting. Everyone heals at their own rate. The Angels have given optimistic timelines for just about every injury that's happened in the past decade. Mike Trout still says he's not 100% so what are we gaining by risking it? 

It's wasn't that long ago that Andrelton Simmons talked his way back into the lineup following his ankle sprain, played like shit for a week, went back on the DL and now the dude has lost a couple steps in the field. Again, I really don't see why the Angels deserve the benefit of the doubt here.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I'm just going off the reporting. Everyone heals at their own rate. The Angels have given optimistic timelines for just about every injury that's happened in the past decade. Mike Trout still says he's not 100% so what are we gaining by risking it? 

It's wasn't that long ago that Andrelton Simmons talked his way back into the lineup following his ankle sprain, played like shit for a week, went back on the DL and now the dude has lost a couple steps in the field. Again, I really don't see why the Angels deserve the benefit of the doubt here.

I just don’t see the data the way you do.  I don’t see anything that tells me the Angels are willing to “risk it.”

[Angels 1961]

People they are just discussing it. Leaving all doors open as they should. It's not like they are talking about trading him. Minasian sitting around table with his people eating danish and drinking coffee. 

[ettin]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

It is always confusing to me, but Adell has 0.153 years of service time. Maybe they want to keep that below 0.5, so if we assume they wouldn't want to play him more than 0.34 of a year, that's about 62 days (.34 x 183 days).

The final game of the year is Oct 3, so if we go back 62 days from that we get to August 2, I believe - or thereabouts. So we're not far from that, and I could see them calling him up anytime after that.

 

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

That .15 of service time for Adell is surprisingly low. He played more than half the season last year (almost 2/3) and I thought they gave them full credit of service time even in the shortened season.  

Adell has 153 days of Major League service time. The cap for one full year is 172 days. If he stays below 172 days, this year, the Angels will have a full six years of control, but he will almost definitely be in the conversation for Super Two status if they start playing him to begin the season in 2022 (then in the 2023-2024 offseason, Jo would be arbitration eligible).

That is why they may not call him up at all this year and run him out in RF to start 2023. Of course they could still call him up this year and then keep him down for about three weeks to start 2023 and then bring him up permanently, then. Adell has three options remaining, per Roster Resource, but that number might only be two if they haven't counted his time up in 2020 (which is fuzzy to me, the 2020 rules were different due to the pandemic).

Basically, there are only 19 days remaining before he hits a full year of service time and correspondingly loses a year of control. This decision will simply come down to whether or not the Angels believe he will impact this season and I think right now they are probably leaning toward keeping him down until the last two weeks or so of the season and give him another cup of coffee. This way they could just run him out to start 2022 and retain a full six years of control at the price of Adell becoming a Super Two guy. Otherwise they could bring him up soon, as AJ suggested, let him gain about 2 months of service time, then keep him down in the Minors to start 2022 and bring him up after about a handful of months or so down in the Minors for a permanent call up and try to skirt the Super Two cutoff (which would mean he'd probably get called up in July or so).

In the end Adell is the type of guy who has the potential to be super impactful so the Angels will probably not wrestle to hard with service time if they think he is ready, now, as Jeff Fletcher and some others have suggested. If he can play, let him do so and be a difference maker.

[Revad]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

People they are just discussing it. Leaving all doors open as they should. It's not like they are talking about trading him. Minasian sitting around table with his people eating danish and drinking coffee. 

We should send Minasian some Red Bull.  Maybe then we see a trade?

[Angels 1961]

1 minute ago, Revad said:

We should send Minasian some Red Bull.  Maybe then we see a trade?

I think tonights game will tell. Team waiting see big chips fall first.

[Hubs]

13 hours ago, Second Base said:

When Mike Trout is healthy, he is still the best defensive CF in this roster, Marsh included.

But just because Trout is the best defensive CF on the team, doesn't mean he should be playing CF. And the reason is found in the small details

Trout isn't 100% and quite frankly, I have my doubts about him ever returning to 100% in 2021. It might be one of those things that lingers and takes the off-season and a new mobilization program to fully heal and prevent. These things just come with age. Just as an example, personally I've never had back or shoulder issues, but now the same movements, reps and weights from my 20's are causing discomfort in my 30's. And the answer has been showing up 10-15 minutes earlier to the gym and going through uncomfortable mobilizing exercises. It sucks and I hate it, but it's fixed the issue and is necessary long term. 

The second reason is that while a healthy Trout is better than Marsh in 2021, doesn't mean it'll be that way in 2022. Trout isn't going to get better defensively, and Marsh is. They'll probably be pretty equal in 2022 with Trout needing to fully move to the corner in 2023. 

On the other hand, Upton is still the LF in 2022, the only open spot on the roster is RF and Marsh being left handed with a better arm fits RF better. Which means a return to CF for Trout in 2022 is necessary to maximize personnel value.

Come 2023, we'll have a decision to make. Jordyn Adams will be ready by then if he isn't traded, and defensively, he's going to blow both Marsh and Trout out of the water. Seriously, wait till you guys get to see this kid in the gaps. True 80 grade speed. HOWEVER, Jo Adell is also going to be more than ready by then. And his thunderous bat in the lineup definitely offsets the loss of Upton. But, that would likely mean Adell in RF, with Marsh in CF and Trout in LF. My trepidation comes from the fact that Jo Adell is the worst defensive RF I think I've ever seen. Who knows, maybe all that athleticism changes things and he figures it out. 

Jordyn Adams being major league ready in 2023 is far from certain. He's only played 36 games this season at High A ball, and is hitting .214 with a .288 OBP and a .371 SLG. He has 4 SB.

He has 80 grade speed, but he will be a 4th OF if he doesn't start hitting in A ball this year. I'd honestly expect him to repeat this level in 2022. And then if he hits, he's in AA/AAA in 2023, and then in AAA and possibly the Majors in 2024 in his age 24 season.

 

[Second Base]

21 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Jordyn Adams being major league ready in 2023 is far from certain. He's only played 36 games this season at High A ball, and is hitting .214 with a .288 OBP and a .371 SLG. He has 4 SB.

He has 80 grade speed, but he will be a 4th OF if he doesn't start hitting in A ball this year. I'd honestly expect him to repeat this level in 2022. And then if he hits, he's in AA/AAA in 2023, and then in AAA and possibly the Majors in 2024 in his age 24 season.

 

Absolutely true, but you should check out what he's done since returning from the IL.

[Hubs]

Just now, Second Base said:

Absolutely true, but you should check out what he's done since returning from the IL.

How would I find that? The Minor league splits website I used is not working any longer.

Also, I hope he hits. But he needs reps and there isn't a clear spot, so I think my timeline is a little closer than what you have originally listed.

A/AA in 2022, AA/AAA and maybe a glimpse of the majors in 2023, and 2024 he's riding the AAA shuttle, 2025 a major league regular at age 25.

 

[jsnpritchett]

2 minutes ago, Hubs said:

How would I find that? The Minor league splits website I used is not working any longer.

Also, I hope he hits. But he needs reps and there isn't a clear spot, so I think my timeline is a little closer than what you have originally listed.

A/AA in 2022, AA/AAA and maybe a glimpse of the majors in 2023, and 2024 he's riding the AAA shuttle, 2025 a major league regular at age 25.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=adams-002jor&type=bgl&year=2021

I guess I'm missing something, too, Hubs, because I see that he's hit .208/.283/.311 since he returned...If you just look at July, it's a little better, but still nothing special: .239/.316/.420.

[Hubs]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=adams-002jor&type=bgl&year=2021

I guess I'm missing something, too, Hubs, because I see that he's hit .208/.283/.311 since he returned...If you just look at July, it's a little better, but still nothing special: .239/.316/.420.

The latter would be ok, if he also had 30 SB in 36 games.

I hope he has a good career, I do. But I don't see him in the majors until 2024.