Gallo and Gibson

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, wopphil said:

I’d like to see where we are at in two weeks, but I wouldn’t be totally opposed to trading Adell for these two. If they can help us push for the playoffs this year, and still be around next year, it might be worth the gamble (plus Gallo would be a QO candidate). 

This feels like a gamble I would've rather taken had we been able to rope Lance Lynn into the deal in the offseason...at this point, you'd think whatever package they could offer for Gallo and Gibson involving Adell would also put them in the mix for Berrios, Marquez, Castillo, arms from the Braves or Indians, or Hendricks, and those take away the risk of it blowing up in-division. Plus those pitchers have a lot more upside than Gibson.

[JustATroutFan]

12 minutes ago, totdprods said:

If he was the top bat in our offense, sure, it would be a problem, but he wouldn't be here. Also, he's hitting .239, which is essentially AL league average (.243). The Yankees' offense is almost entirely built around that type of hitter and that's why it isn't working. We have a really nice balance. 

When you look at all his pros and cons - good defense, ability to play multiple positions, left-handed power, plus-plus power, above-average arm, elite walk rate, league average BA, an extension candidate...a strikeout rate that's just slightly worse than Trout and Ohtani isn't enough of a detriment to outweigh what he brings. 

But again - I don't see the Angels fitting here. A team like NYY, Atlanta, or San Diego could top any offer we'd make (or at least that I'd want to see us make) with better quality prospects, and as @Dochalo pointed out, Kyle Gibson isn't enough of a pitching upgrade to warrant an expanded deal. 

Had this been the offseason when competition for Gallo was a little less, and someone like Lance Lynn could have been worked into the deal (maybe Gibson too as a salary dump since he was awful last year), then paying a premium would have made more sense. It just doesn't now.

Until proven otherwise, I'm going to say that the reason behind why Trout's strikeouts are inflated right now is because pitchers like Glasnow and Bauer are cheating with sticky substances. Gallo has always struck out a lot, even without pitchers cheating. The guy could really make it to 2,000 strikeouts without even lasting 15 seasons in the big leagues. That's embarrassing, even considering the era that he's playing in. 

[totdprods]

6 hours ago, Dochalo said:

we're 5.5 gb of the second WC for the love of everything decent and holy.  which means the year and a half of club control they both have essentially becomes 1 yr where it could be worth it.  Even trading lesser players means giving up volume from the rather nice collection of foreign players in the ACL we've accumulated.  I just don't get it.  People want this franchise to stop playing as if only the current year matters.  We probably need at least 90 wins to make the second WC.  Which means we have to play at a .620 clip the rest of the way.  Which means we would have to be one of the best teams in baseball the rest of the way if not the best.  

And as for next year, come talk to me when we grow a legit bull pen and we're better than 1 game over .500 at the break.  Then maybe I'd consider move a couple of our top prospects for some short term help.  Maybe.  sure as hell hope we're not gonna move all in on a year and a half of kyle gibson.  Someone we should have pursued as a free agent before last year.  

This isn't wrong...but this also reflects where we differ as fans and where someone like Perry and Arte are looking at this.

Of course we want the Angels to develop long-term success on a foundation of a strong farm and developing internal solutions year after year. That's what we, as fans, see as the best route to consistent success. We're here for the long haul. We were (mostly) here before Arte, before Perry, and will (hopefully) be here long after Arte and Perry. 

Arte and Perry see a team that has Ohtani for two more years, Upton for one more year, an increasingly injury-prone Trout, a potentially worrisome investment in Rendon, and a team still on the fringes of contention despite many issues. It's more important to them to pull the trigger and try and go for it while Arte is alive and while Perry has a chance to make a splash on his career. 

It's not that I'm advocating for an aggressive push to win now or deal the farm for a second WC spot at the deadline, but based on everything we've seen in the Arte years, investing in the farm for long-term success does not seem to be a priority - fielding a competitive MLB team is, and not always at the most reasonable cost. Because of this, I feel odds are much greater that the Angels see this as an opportunity to be aggressive than a reason to stand pat or sell.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

Until proven otherwise, I'm going to say that the reason behind why Trout's strikeouts are inflated right now is because pitchers like Glasnow and Bauer are cheating with sticky substances. Gallo has always struck out a lot, even without pitchers cheating. The guy could really make it to 2,000 strikeouts without even lasting 15 seasons in the big leagues. That's embarrassing, even considering the era that he's playing in. 

So one guy was impacted by  pitchers cheating But the other guy wasn’t?  

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, JustATroutFan said:

Until proven otherwise, I'm going to say that the reason behind why Trout's strikeouts are inflated right now is because pitchers like Glasnow and Bauer are cheating with sticky substances. Gallo has always struck out a lot, even without pitchers cheating. The guy could really make it to 2,000 strikeouts without even lasting 15 seasons in the big leagues. That's embarrassing, even considering the era that he's playing in. 

Gallo has taken off since the sticky stuff issue started subsiding. He's striking out at a good clip still, but also hitting around ~.300/.475/.800 in his last 100 something PA. 

[DMVol]

24 minutes ago, wopphil said:

I’d like to see where we are at in two weeks, but I wouldn’t be totally opposed to trading Adell for these two. If they can help us push for the playoffs this year, and still be around next year, it might be worth the gamble (plus Gallo would be a QO candidate). 

It has kind of snuck up on us but, with the deadline two weeks away, Perry need to be laying the groundwork for any deals now.....things may start moving early next week or even this weekend.....that is tough if we're not sure if we're a buyer or seller....

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, DMVol said:

It has kind of snuck up on us but, with the deadline two weeks away, Perry need to be laying the groundwork for any deals now.....things may start moving early next week or even this weekend.....that is tough if we're not sure if we're a buyer or seller....

Plus Cubs look like they may be ready to sell given the Joc trade, and we match up so well with them in so many ways there may not be time to wait. 

Theoretically any of Hendricks, Davies, Contreras, Kimbrel, Baez, Tepera, Chafin, Winkler even Bryant all could fit into our needs. Seeing as how we acquired so many guys who played for Maddon and the Cubs' need for both MLB-ready upper level talent (Barria, Thaiss, Rengifo) and the lower-level guys they targeted in the Darvish deal (Paris, Kochanowicz, Holmes, Knowles, Vera) there's reason to believe we'd match up. 

[wopphil]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

 Arte and Perry see a team that has Ohtani for two more years, Upton for one more year, an increasingly injury-prone Trout, a potentially worrisome investment in Rendon, and a team still on the fringes of contention despite many issues. It's more important to them to pull the trigger and try and go for it while Arte is alive and while Perry has a chance to make a splash on his career. 

 

Bingo. Perfectly said. Arte’s odds of even being alive by the time Trout’s contract ends are no better than 50/50. Barring a catastrophic upcoming two weeks, he isn’t punting in a season where he is getting historical output from Ohtani, his superstar player is coming back from injury, and his pitching is showing some signs of improvement.

This is a year to go for it if there are moves that can actually be made. 

[Tank]

17 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

Gallo's defense is fine and Gibson is controlled through next year (2022 salary is a little under $8M).

(Edit to note that I'm not necessarily crazy about either of them (don't think I could handle Gallo's Ks, even if it does come with a .400 OBP this year), but just wanted to point out a couple things about them)

I’m really upset about the edit portion of your post.

You should never, EVER use parentheses inside of parentheses, you hack. You should’ve used brackets. 
 

[Capital_Dave]

18 hours ago, mmc said:

Not much.  Don't want Gibson as a rental starter and Gallo doesn't play defense too well.

This is a Bad Takes Hall of Fame contender.  Gibson would slot in as our #3 starter and Gallo is a Gold Glove defender with a rocket arm.  I'm with Chuck: I'd deal "Marsh +" for this.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 hours ago, wopphil said:

I’d like to see where we are at in two weeks, but I wouldn’t be totally opposed to trading Adell for these two. If they can help us push for the playoffs this year, and still be around next year, it might be worth the gamble (plus Gallo would be a QO candidate). 

So have we given up on Adell and Marsh? They will be at least $10M cheaper than Gallo. Money that needs to spent on first tier pitching.

[wopphil]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

So have we given up on Adell and Marsh? They will be at least $10M cheaper than Gallo. Money that needs to spent on first tier pitching.

I would consider moving Adell (whose ceiling I feel is Randall Grichuk, without the defense) in this package. Not saying I would, but I would consider it. I would not move Marsh for these two. 

[totdprods]

I don't necessarily think Marsh will be better than Adell or has a higher ceiling or floor, I just like the way his skill set fits the Angels more than Adell's. Marsh's combo of discipline, speed, good defense, left-handed bat all fit Maddon's team and Jeremy Reed's best successes. Marsh's skill set also tends to not need as much of a learning curve, whereas with Adell we might be waiting a while for things to click and his ceiling to be reached. 

Adell + for Gallo and Lynn would have been worth entertaining in the winter. Midseason for Gallo and Gibson? Not sure. 

I'd actually be more interested in Gallo and Kiner-Falefa than Gibson, and pursue pitching separately. Improve SS defense for the long-term in that deal.

[Second Base]

I'm not trading Adell unless it's for controllable pitching. I'm not trading Marsh at all. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Lance Lynn when he was in Texas last year would be nice right about now....

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Lance Lynn when he was in Texas last year would be nice right about now....

Yep, but not sure we had a guy like Dunning to trade to get him.  

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yep, but not sure we had a guy like Dunning to trade to get him.  

Canning and Adell for Lynn and Gallo could’ve been good franework…

Edited July 16, 2021 by totdprods

[HanfordGuy]

I’m getting visions of C.J Wilson and Josh Hamilton…pass.

[mmc]

I mean how much would it sting to see Adell or Marsh become a star for a division rival for the next decade+?  I wouldn’t even consider giving either to Texas

[Inside Pitch]

Kyle Gibson eh?

I was banging the drum pretty hard to chase him when he was a FA...  The people who were against it were Canadian/stupid and yapped about his ERA while ignoring his tendencies and the defense behind him -- it's no real surprise to see him enjoy a bit of a breakout now that the people behind him can field the ball.  So all that out of the way, the main reason I wanted him because he was a good shot to give the Angels a 4.00 ERA at an affordable price, and while his salary next year will still be extremely affordable, the cost to get him will never be higher and as much as I like him, he's not a 2.25 ERA guy -- never buy high.   At his best and with a league average defense behind him he's still essentially a 3.5-4.00 ERA guy.  The Rangers will likely be able to get a pretty decent haul for him and the Angels need a front line guy moving forward which he isn't.  As far as Gallo goes..   His greatest attributes are veteran skills, power and OBP and he's having his best season in his age 27 season, almost as if he read Bill James' Historical Abstracts...   Both those attributes are expensive these days and players of his ilk historically peaked at age 27 (pre-PED era), Gallo's got one year and is likely in line to double his salary via arbitration.  Much as I would never buy high, I don't trade for guys with old player skills after their age 27 season and a year away from FA.    

People keep blathering on and on about the need for pitching and some are actually lining up to trade for and then extend Gallo.  I don't get it. but it's exactly the sort of stuff Arte might like.  I mean, he invested 10 years and 240 mil on a 1B when he had two still under club control 1B in Morales and Trumbo and absolutely no need for a 1B.   Kinda like trading for and extending a corner OFer when you have two top 100 OF prospects.