Bullet Dodged

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

None of the above. Quit throwing money 100 to 200 mill at players. Will need money for Ohtani, Walsh and others. Develop your own pitching or make smart trades. Rendon 38 mill for 5 more years and he cannot stay on the field. You can't give his contract away. 

Walsh is going to sign a contract similar to Fletcher’s deal, even if it is twice as much it isn’t going to prevent us from doing anything really.  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

11 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I wanted Cole more than any FA since Beltre was available. And holy shit would that have been huge. Rendon signing wasnt "fun" to me at all, being that he wasnt Cole.

But has anyone seen his numbers since the sticky stuff crackdown?

Then add Bauer last off season. I wanted him because we need pitching so badly, but was leery after seeing that video I posted on here, about his numbers once he started using the sticky stuff, and how the video alluded to MLBs pending crackdown. (Though it hasnt seemed to effect him).

Had we signed either, with Coles sudden pre 2018, and Bauers legal trouble, we would have been absolutely screwed. Would have been right up there with pujols and hamilton.

We obviously still need a frontline SP. But we got lucky as hell on missing out on both of these guys.

I just wish Bauer got the same deal Cole did

Side note. The yankees are stuck w Coles money (assuming he doesnt bounce back), chapman (who has also completely fallen off since the crackdown) and stanton. (I still like stanton a lot, but hes not the same guy). And thats about 500+ mill over the next 6 years or so. 

Someone else is finally in our shoes.

Many pitchers have dropped since the *Crackdown* ...  Think about it...

Thank former Halos Visitor Clubhouse Manager Brian Bubba Harkins! He came up with the stuff everyone was using.... Had himself a pretty good side business! With his baseball mud. The mud helped so pitchers could keep hold of the ball. Same reason we rubbed it up with dirt coming in back in the day! Sweat from your hands and arms depending on how hot/humid it is pours down your arm to your hand. No or bad grip on the ball means frisbees on off-speed stuff and fastballs that miss their spots!

Even Cole was called in as a witness?.... 

Everyone cheats, or attempts to get a one up on the next team, players are still using HGH and other questionable supplements. 

It's a business 1st! Everyone makes a ton of $$$$ once the players contracts hit 10-20M per  there is an expectation to perform and perform well. For your family, your team, your agent, your bills. (I'm not saying it's an excuse! It's just Life & Human Nature!).

[Revad]

17 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I did a bit more research and looked at a couple other teams and realized I was over-estimating how many major leaguers come out of drafts - I was a bit surprised, really. But also note that I'm grading the total crop - including international free aents. But I was solidly off, maybe by as much as a full grade in some cases. 

Focusing on just the amateur draft, I'd probably recalibrate like so, with each letter grade adding something to the lower grades:

F. Nothing more than an up-and-down guy or two.

D. Adds a single bench player, and/or another up-and-down guy or two. 

C. Adds a fringe regular and/or another bench player or two. A typical draft being a fringe regular and/or 2-3 bench guys, and a few up-and-down guys.

B. An average plus regular or a handful of solid bench guys. Meaning, to be a grade B draft would require one guy who sticks as a regular of 2-3 WAR per season, or be filled with solid bench guys.

A. An impact player. Meaning, a draft reaches A- with a single 3+ WAR player and most or all of the above, with better or more similar players leading to an A and A+. 

So to revise my original grades, something like so (with total grade including international free agents in parentheses):

2012: D. Not even a single consistent bench guys, just a few up-and-downers.

2013: D+ (C). Depends on how Middleton, Hermosillo, and Barria develop.

2014: C- (C or higher). Depends on Newcomb and Suarez. Hard to assess the Baldoquin Effect, but its a serious negative; without Suarez, Id say overall this is a D or worse. If Suarez turns into a good reliever, it probably is a C/C+; if he turns into a mid-rotation starter, its a B-/B higher, depending upon how good he is. But unless he's the second coming of Pedro, Baldoquin caps how good this crop is.

2015: A- or A. Fletcher and Walsh are both at least average regulars (2-3 WAR) if not above average (3-4), Walsh maybe be a borderline star (4-5). Jones is icing on the cake.

2016: B+ or higher. Depends on how Thaiss, Marsh, and CRod do. could be an A if things pan out as we hope (Marsh as a borderline star, CRod as a #2-3).

2017: B or higher. Could be an A if Adell and Canning are good, but at least they should be solid regulars. The Braves crop is almost a bust.

2018: B or higher. Who knows. This could be anything from a C to an A, but there's a handful of potentially useful players.

2019: B- or higher (B or higher). Slightly worse than 2018, I think, but the international signings more than make up for it. Could be a great crop.

2020: B or higher. See above. Detmers alone makes this probably a B.

As an aside, of course probably the best way to assess a draft is total WAR, but we can't do that until everyone is retired - so we're talking about 15-20 years ago, or at the very least 10+ years out. 

Good luck with that.

11 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Many pitchers have dropped since the *Crackdown* ...  Think about it...

Thank former Halos Visitor Clubhouse Manager Brian Bubba Harkins! He came up with the stuff everyone was using.... Had himself a pretty good side business! With his baseball mud. The mud helped so pitchers could keep hold of the ball. Same reason we rubbed it up with dirt coming in back in the day! Sweat from your hands and arms depending on how hot/humid it is pours down your arm to your hand. No or bad grip on the ball means frisbees on off-speed stuff and fastballs that miss their spots!

Even Cole was called in as a witness?.... 

Everyone cheats, or attempts to get a one up on the next team, players are still using HGH and other questionable supplements. 

It's a business 1st! Everyone makes a ton of $$$$ once the players contracts hit 10-20M per  there is an expectation to perform and perform well. For your family, your team, your agent, your bills.

I agree.

[stormngt]

All of them is bad if its 30+ million and 6 or 7 years.  

That is why I prefer the trade route for an Ace and go with our cheap in house options.

1. Sandavol is in the rotation

2. Suarez is in the rotation

3. Barria should be in the rotation

4. Canning will be back in the rotation

5. CRod is currently being stretched out for this year.

6. Detmers doing well in AA

Add Ohtani and we have 7!

Find 3 more with options that could provide depth through trades or in house.

Edited July 9, 2021 by stormngt

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Everyone cheats, or attempts to get a one up on the next team, players are still using HGH and other questionable supplements. 

This.

If I understand correctly, there still isnt a test for HGH

[ukyah]

a lot of you are going to be eating your negative words about rendon.

[Stradling]

50 minutes ago, stormngt said:

All of them is bad if its 30+ million and 6 or 7 years.  

That is why I prefer the trade route for an Ace and go with our cheap in house oltions.

1. Sandavol in the rotation

2. Suarez in the rotation

3. Barria should be in the rotation

4. Canning will be back in the rotation

5. CRod is currently being stretched out for this year.

6. Detmers doing well in AA

Add Ohtani and we have 7!

Find 3 more with options that could provide depth through trades or in house.

I’d rather have an ace. 

[Revad]

If you don’t enforce the rules, the rules don’t matter much.  Baseball has always allowed cheating but you have to draw somewhere.

[JustATroutFan]

56 minutes ago, ukyah said:

a lot of you are going to be eating your negative words about rendon.

Interesting that Rendon's slash line is excellent and looks a lot like his 2019 season since the league started cracking down on pitchers using sticky substances. 

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I’d rather have an ace. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

21 minutes ago, Lou said:

"I dont hear you saying stop"

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, stormngt said:

All of them is bad if its 30+ million and 6 or 7 years.  

That is why I prefer the trade route for an Ace and go with our cheap in house oltions.

1. Sandavol in the rotation

2. Suarez in the roton

3. Barria should be in the rotation

4. Canning will be back in the rotation

5. CRod is currently being stretched out for this year.

6. Detmers doing well in AA

Add Ohtani and we have 7!

Find 3 more with options that could provide depth through trades or in house.

O agree do not get stuck another huge contract

[Angelsjunky]

In house oltions are the best.

[Jason]

56 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

In house oltions are the best.

Hopefully the Halos start developing more for the future 

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

I’d rather have an ace. 

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

13 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Most long term contracts turn out bad

^^^^

[Angels 1961]

6 hours ago, ukyah said:

a lot of you are going to be eating your negative words about rendon.

I hope you are right but 38 mill next 5 years does not look good now. 

[ukyah]

3 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I hope you are right but 38 mill next 5 years does not look good now. 

it's not about the next five years. it's all the people who think he's finished now. he's going to be good for years to come. he's just having an injury marred season. he won't be anything like albert pujols.

[Angels 1961]

48 minutes ago, ukyah said:

it's not about the next five years. it's all the people who think he's finished now. he's going to be good for years to come. he's just having an injury marred season. he won't be anything like albert pujols.

I hope you are right, but it is a contract that cannot be moved.

[tomsred]

8 hours ago, stormngt said:

All of them is bad if its 30+ million and 6 or 7 years.  

That is why I prefer the trade route for an Ace and go with our cheap in house options.

1. Sandavol is in the rotation

2. Suarez is in the rotation

3. Barria should be in the rotation

4. Canning will be back in the rotation

5. CRod is currently being stretched out for this year.

6. Detmers doing well in AA

Add Ohtani and we have 7!

Find 3 more with options that could provide depth through trades or in house.

We will see, but I think Cobb could still be in the mix next year, if he can be signed at a lower salary.  It depends on how he ends this year. The same for Heaney if not traded.  Quintana, Bundy and some of these relievers are definitely gone though.  Some hard decisions will have to be made at SS and backup catcher, and possibly with Upton on the position side of things.  Rendon's situation is not permanent, I think he will bounce back for several decent years.  He's actually a great third baseman.

[ukyah]

13 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

I hope you are right, but it is a contract that cannot be moved.

i don't see why that matters. it's not like the angels are going to go full rebuild. they're simply not going to do that.  they're not going to move him, trout, or likely ohtani.

if they'd just invest in some pitching, then their fortunes would turn around, and i believe it's already started to. i really believe that albert pujols was stunting this team's growth in more ways than just his contract. i don't think it's coincidental that this team is starting to look much more like a "team", than it has for years. that may be too much to lay at the feet of pujols, but i still see it.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

i don't see why that matters. it's not like the angels are going to go full rebuild. they're simply not going to do that.  they're not going to move him, trout, or likely ohtani.

if they'd just invest in some pitching, then their fortunes would turn around, and i believe it's already started to. i really believe that albert pujols was stunting this team's growth in more ways than just his contract. i don't think it's coincidental that this team is starting to look much more like a "team", than it has for years. that may be too much to lay at the feet of pujols, but i still see it.

What I'm saying Angels on a budget and only have so much to spend. Rendon takes a big chunk of that. The options on him like Albert are zero. I hope Rendon gets healthy and plays up to his abilities. I just do not like long term contracts. Budget for next around 56 mill. with many spots to fill. I just hope they do not invest 150 mill or so on a pitcher. Rendon, Trout and Upton on IL and halos 2 games over 500. Last 6 off season same old thing and end up with losing teams. Finally this year they seem to have some young pitchers ready for next year.

[Angel Oracle]

On 7/8/2021 at 3:18 PM, ukyah said:

a lot of you are going to be eating your negative words about rendon.

If only he would stay healthy.

[Angel Oracle]

18 hours ago, tomsred said:

We will see, but I think Cobb could still be in the mix next year, if he can be signed at a lower salary.  It depends on how he ends this year. The same for Heaney if not traded.  Quintana, Bundy and some of these relievers are definitely gone though.  Some hard decisions will have to be made at SS and backup catcher, and possibly with Upton on the position side of things.  Rendon's situation is not permanent, I think he will bounce back for several decent years.  He's actually a great third baseman.

Iglesias has had 27 consecutive errorless games, and is now close to .700 OPS.  Bring him back for one season plus team option year?

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

What I'm saying Angels on a budget and only have so much to spend. Rendon takes a big chunk of that. The options on him like Albert are zero. I hope Rendon gets healthy and plays up to his abilities. I just do not like long term contracts. Budget for next around 56 mill. with many spots to fill. I just hope they do not invest 150 mill or so on a pitcher. Rendon, Trout and Upton on IL and halos 2 games over 500. Last 6 off season same old thing and end up with losing teams. Finally this year they seem to have some young pitchers ready for next year.

the 75-150 million dollar pitcher is exactly where they should look. maybe supplement with a 40-50 or something like that. they need a reasonable FA SP for the top of the rotation.