Wake me up when we get to the bridge

[Docwaukee]

On 5/12/2021 at 6:38 PM, Angelsjunky said:

I grew up in Vermont for my first seven years of life. We had family on Long Island, and would drive down once or twice a year. The drive was over five hours, an eternity for a family with two boys. Anyhow, the only thing I remember is that my brother, seven years older than me, would bunch a sweater up against tte window and say, before allegedly sleeping for a few hours, "Wake me up when we get to the bridge." 

(The bridge, I believe, was Whitestone or Throgs, and meant we were almost there, and the drive had gotten interesting, at least to two Vermont boys)

I think I mentioned this before, some years ago, in writing a very similar post. But...here we are again. I mention this because I'm getting that feeling again. You know the feeling, very familiar to Angels fans: That the season is all but over not long into it. Or, at least, we're in that long slog between the beginning and end, when you know the final result. 

And I know...it's early. There's always hope, right? How many times have I, have we, said this? And I know I foolishly called the team "magical," just ten games in (remember 7-3? They're 9-16 since...and .360 winning percentage).

But...this team. It just feels so...mediocre. It differs from the ghosts of teams past, I suppose, due to the presence of Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani, and glimmers here and there. But, like almost every year in my 40 years of fandom, the result just seems inevitable. The team will end up winning 70-80-something games, and miss the playoffs. It won't be horrible, but it won't be good. Angels teams are rarely one extreme or the other (never lost 100, only won 100 once; in fact, they've only lost 95 once, but only won 95 five times, and all since 2002...so I suppose there's that, there's...2002-09. But that ended a dozen years ago now).

Here we are again.

I get more of a 'they're doing something wrong' vibe from this team than 'they're mediocre' vibe.  I just can't get over how bad the defense has been with all the metrics available to help.  That huge gap in their ERA vs. their FIP is still holding and we are literally seeing examples of why every game.  Ground balls to spots where a guy should be defensively with no one there.  And forget the bad luck argument.  You just aren't going to sell me on that anymore.  

In recent years passed, I saw so many more holes and gaps of talent.  I don't see that for this team.  Yes, they're far from perfect and not nearly as good as some of the more elite teams but to me, defensive positioning is have a 1 run per game impact on our pitching.  That's just absurd to me but also gives me hope that with some adjustments it can get better very quickly.  

The bullpen still bothers me though.  Adding a solid arm or getting something unexpected out of an existing player could change that dynamic in a hurry though.  

[Slegnaac]

12 hours ago, Revad said:

You’ve given up on the playoffs?

I think we will know more after this weekend.  Did they fall farther behind, or have they narrowed the gap?

[Angels 1961]

9 hours ago, DMVol said:

I think we know what the most drastic decision would be...it would involve the best player on the planet.....pains me to think about it.....

I know Angel fans do not even want to think about trading Trout. This could be 6 years of losing and 2022 would look the same replacing rotation again plus bullpen. I have no idea what halos could get for Trout and what teams could afford his contract. If you could get a young stud like a Julio Urias plus other players I would look at it. With a pitcher like Urias and Ohtani you would have two top of rotation pitchers. Halos would also have money from Pujols and Trout contracts  gone. Have money to go get more pitching and a top SS someone like Corey Seager. Again I have no idea what Trout would bring back plus he has a no trade contract. My thinking comes from so many seasons of losing and frustration of things remaining the same. I also wonder what is in Trout's head after halos DFA of Pujols. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

I know Angel fans do not even want to think about trading Trout. This could be 6 years of losing and 2022 would look the same replacing rotation again plus bullpen. I have no idea what halos could get for Trout and what teams could afford his contract. If you could get a young stud like a Julio Urias plus other players I would look at it. With a pitcher like Urias and Ohtani you would have two top of rotation pitchers. Halos would also have money from Pujols and Trout contracts  gone. Have money to go get more pitching and a top SS someone like Corey Seager. Again I have no idea what Trout would bring back plus he has a no trade contract. My thinking comes from so many seasons of losing and frustration of things remaining the same. I also wonder what is in Trout's head after halos DFA of Pujols. 

You won’t get fair value in a Trout trade which is why we don’t even want to think about trading Trout. 

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, Angels 1961 said:

I know Angel fans do not even want to think about trading Trout. This could be 6 years of losing and 2022 would look the same replacing rotation again plus bullpen. I have no idea what halos could get for Trout and what teams could afford his contract. If you could get a young stud like a Julio Urias plus other players I would look at it. With a pitcher like Urias and Ohtani you would have two top of rotation pitchers. Halos would also have money from Pujols and Trout contracts  gone. Have money to go get more pitching and a top SS someone like Corey Seager. Again I have no idea what Trout would bring back plus he has a no trade contract. My thinking comes from so many seasons of losing and frustration of things remaining the same. I also wonder what is in Trout's head after halos DFA of Pujols. 

I also have to wonder where Trout's head is, beyond Pujols....hard to believe he will be 30 this year....he has to be frustrated with where  this franchise is....I love my team and don't want to see Trout traded but if we need a full rebuild, like the Stros and Cubs went through, I am to the point that, for the first time, I think you have to consider it.

[Docwaukee]

20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You won’t get fair value in a Trout trade which is why we don’t even want to think about trading Trout. 

it's not even about fair value at this point.  Trout is iconic in an Angel uniform.  Even if you could somehow get fair value from a player standpoint, it would never be enough to replace what Trout means to this organization.  It's silly to even think about.

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

it's not even about fair value at this point.  Trout is iconic in an Angel uniform.  Even if you could somehow get fair value from a player standpoint, it would never be enough to replace what Trout means to this organization.  It's silly to even think about.

I agree

[Angels 1961]

29 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I agree

Fair value probably not but what changes next year? This could be 6th losing season and Trout will be 30. I wonder what he feels about Angels future. 2022 will need 4 starters plus bullpen a mess, like I said it's frustrating as the losing continues. 

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

You won’t get fair value in a Trout trade which is why we don’t even want to think about trading Trout. 

Yep

Exhibit A - Cabrera trade to the Tigers, where the Marlins ended up getting very little production ultimately from the acquisitions

[Angel Oracle]

Let’s hope Maddon is seriously changing the defense positioning.

Can’t go on like they have, and contend.

Domino effect:

Better defense positioning leads to better defense results.  

Better defense results leads to more pitcher confidence.  

Better pitcher confidence leads to not walking so many batters.  

Not walking so many batters leads to pitching deeper into games.  

Pitching deeper into games leads to not wearing out the pen.  

Not wearing out the pen leads to much better relief pitching.

Etc Etc Etc

Make the adjustments, Joe!

Edited May 14, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Angelsjunky]

4 hours ago, Slegnaac said:

Sadly, that might have been a once in a lifetime event.

Hopefully not. Thankfully I turned on the radio on the drive home, and got to enjoy the rest of the game the old-fashioned way.

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I get more of a 'they're doing something wrong' vibe from this team than 'they're mediocre' vibe.  I just can't get over how bad the defense has been with all the metrics available to help.  That huge gap in their ERA vs. their FIP is still holding and we are literally seeing examples of why every game.  Ground balls to spots where a guy should be defensively with no one there.  And forget the bad luck argument.  You just aren't going to sell me on that anymore.  

In recent years passed, I saw so many more holes and gaps of talent.  I don't see that for this team.  Yes, they're far from perfect and not nearly as good as some of the more elite teams but to me, defensive positioning is have a 1 run per game impact on our pitching.  That's just absurd to me but also gives me hope that with some adjustments it can get better very quickly.  

The bullpen still bothers me though.  Adding a solid arm or getting something unexpected out of an existing player could change that dynamic in a hurry though.  

I agree, although the result is mediocrity. I think their talent level is 90ish wins, but their performance thus far is more 75ish.

Despite my complaints, I hold out hope that something will click and they'll go on a hot streak and get back into the thick of things.

The bullpen is, to quote the wokesters, "problematic." I wonder if Jose Suarez could be a surprise player down the line. He's always had the potential, and his last appearance was quite promising. Not sure why they sent him down. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing him, Sandoval, and Barria all in the pen. Tony Watson coming back might help a bit.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

Yep

Exhibit A - Cabrera trade to the Tigers, where the Marlins ended up getting very little production ultimately from the acquisitions

First Cabrera was 24 when traded to Tigers. Trout will be 30 this year. I'm sayiong if you got a young stud pitcher who could form a top 2 in rotation plus money freed up from Trout contract plus other players in deal you'd have to at least look at it. Last 6 years the direction halos have gone is not working. Pujols and Trout money off the books with Upton year after. Tampa and Oakland win year after year with low budget. 

[Tank]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:46 AM, True Grich said:

 

The Craig bridge

Bridge over troubled Craig

[Angels in 2030]

It’s too late with trading Trout.  He’s an Angel icon mainstay now regardless of team/player performance.  Only way you trade him is if he demands it. 
 

If you want to truly rebuild, then Rendon is the one you trade.  

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

it's not even about fair value at this point.  Trout is iconic in an Angel uniform.  Even if you could somehow get fair value from a player standpoint, it would never be enough to replace what Trout means to this organization.  It's silly to even think about.

he shoulda signed with the yankees/phillies when he almost had the chance.

idiot.

[Angelsjunky]

2 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

First Cabrera was 24 when traded to Tigers. Trout will be 30 this year. I'm sayiong if you got a young stud pitcher who could form a top 2 in rotation plus money freed up from Trout contract plus other players in deal you'd have to at least look at it. Last 6 years the direction halos have gone is not working. Pujols and Trout money off the books with Upton year after. Tampa and Oakland win year after year with low budget. 

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Fourts said:

It’s too late with trading Trout.  He’s an Angel icon mainstay now regardless of team/player performance.  Only way you trade him is if he demands it. 
 

If you want to truly rebuild, then Rendon is the one you trade.  

With Rendon less value with his contract.  You say regardless of team performance, I'm the opposite I want this team to win and would leave all options open.

[tdawg87]

Why, and I cannot stress this next part enough, the absolute fuck are we talking about trading Mike Trout?

[Angels in 2030]

23 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

With Rendon less value with his contract.  You say regardless of team performance, I'm the opposite I want this team to win and would leave all options open.

yeah i have no idea what you're trying to say with these posts -- you are all over the place.  Just a hot mess.  I should have stayed with my initial thought when reading the posts and just ignored.  Stupid me.

BTW, Trading Trout means we suck WAAAAAAY more than we do right now and will continue to do so for at least a couple years more.  Maybe 3-5 years down the road, with a Trout trade, you can potentially have a turn around with those assets received in a Trout trade.  But that's hoping/dreaming on potential only.  Now i'm even more annoyed at myself for wasting some additional minutes of my time on this pointless topic. 

[Angels 1961]

9 minutes ago, Fourts said:

yeah i have no idea what you're trying to say with these posts -- you are all over the place.  Just a hot mess.  I should have stayed with my initial thought when reading the posts and just ignored.  Stupid me.

BTW, Trading Trout means we suck WAAAAAAY more than we do right now and will continue to do so for at least a couple years more.  Maybe 3-5 years down the road, with a Trout trade, you can potentially have a turn around with those assets received in a Trout trade.  But that's hoping/dreaming on potential only.  Now i'm even more annoyed at myself for wasting some additional minutes of my time on this pointless topic. 

Your kidding Trout loses value each year he gets older. At 35 owned 200 mill what would you get then. I'm not saying trade him but Angels in 6th losing season and you must keep all options open. As an Angel fan I'm tired of losing. You do not know if Angels would be better  off keeping him. Depends on return plus what you do with money saved. If Angels got Urias plus other players and used Trout money to get Seager. All I'm saying as fan tired of losing as I'm sure Trout is and 2022 will be more of the same.

[tdawg87]

Please stop. 

[T.G.]

[PattyD22]

21 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Your kidding Trout loses value each year he gets older. At 35 owned 200 mill what would you get then. I'm not saying trade him but Angels in 6th losing season and you must keep all options open. As an Angel fan I'm tired of losing. You do not know if Angels would be better  off keeping him. Depends on return plus what you do with money saved. If Angels got Urias plus other players and used Trout money to get Seager. All I'm saying as fan tired of losing as I'm sure Trout is and 2022 will be more of the same.

With your love of all things Dodgers, are you sure you’re an Angels fan?  

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, PattyD22 said:

With your love of all things Dodgers, are you sure you’re an Angels fan?  

[tdawg87]

38 minutes ago, PattyD22 said:

With your love of all things Dodgers, are you sure you’re an Angels fan?