Ohtani's Spring Struggles

[Don]

I'll add that it seemed like he really wanted to work on breaking stuff today. He threw a lot more sliders and curves than I think he normally would in an actual game. Considering that those pitches didn't look great in his first start it makes sense. So take it for what it is. Dude looks healthy, his stuff is there, and he went out today pretty clearly looking to work on a few specific things. All signs right now are pointing to him being our best starter this year.

[angelsnationtalk]

I can only reference back to 2018 Spring Training where Ohtani looked lost as hell and then won AL ROY. 

Ohtani had a dominant first inning then command issues set in but Adell didn't help at all either. Plus, Ohtani has been mashing the hell out of the ball when DH-ing so i'm not worried. 

I'm more worried about Adell figuring out how the catch a baseball. Dude makes me cringe every time a ball gets to him. He's got the OF YIPS.

[Chuck]

2 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I can only reference back to 2018 Spring Training where Ohtani looked lost as hell and then won AL ROY. 

Ohtani had a dominant first inning then command issues set in but Adell didn't help at all either. Plus, Ohtani has been mashing the hell out of the ball when DH-ing so i'm not worried. 

I'm more worried about Adell figuring out how the catch a baseball. Dude makes me cringe every time a ball gets to him. He's got the OF YIPS.

Agree on Ohtani.

As far as Adell, this guy needs a full minor league season in the outfield. Preferably at one outfield spot so he can get comfortable. 

[angelsnationtalk]

13 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Agree on Ohtani.

As far as Adell, this guy needs a full minor league season in the outfield. Preferably at one outfield spot so he can get comfortable. 

Yup 100% My only concern is I would have expected him to not seem so far behind defensively. When he was drafted scouts said his speed and arm will play very well in the outfield. It still can, but I have yet to feel confident in it. 

I don't mind the offensive struggling at his age, but struggling that bad defensively worries me.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

7 hours ago, Warfarin said:

The key thing is the stuff is there.  His command is off, which for someone who hasn't pitched much at all for the last 2 years, is to be expected.

Give it time.  His stuff is electric again, which is by far the biggest piece of the puzzle.  His command will improve with more reps. 

When healthy he is as good as any pitcher in the league, better than most. I'm excited about our chances this "season", not so 2018 have been this optimistic about a the beginning of a new season.

[Taylor]

7 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Look at his spring stats in 2018.

Obligatory:

https://sports.yahoo.com/verdict-shohei-ohtanis-bat-not-good-023611674.html

[Jay]

I wouldn't mind just once seeing the Angels pitch well in ST.

[wopphil]

9 hours ago, Don said:

I'll add that it seemed like he really wanted to work on breaking stuff today. He threw a lot more sliders and curves than I think he normally would in an actual game. Considering that those pitches didn't look great in his first start it makes sense. So take it for what it is. Dude looks healthy, his stuff is there, and he went out today pretty clearly looking to work on a few specific things. All signs right now are pointing to him being our best starter this year.

Good assessment. I saw only Ohtani’s first inning, and his off speed stuff looked filthy. The hitters had no clue. The command wasn’t there, but that will improve once Ohtani gets more reps. If he is throwing 100mph and his arm feels fine, then I see nothing at all to worry about.

[tdawg87]

19 minutes ago, Jay said:

I wouldn't mind just once seeing the Angels pitch well in ST.

This is one thing that is a somewhat valid concern. Yes, ST stats don't matter. But if you look up the team ERA's there's a moderately concerning correlation.

I'm going to cherry pick here just for shits and giggles:

The Angels are 29th in ERA. Only the Orioles are worse. Texas, Seattle, and Colorado are all in the bottom 6. All teams expected to be terrible. The top team is the Dodgers, and the Mets, Jays, Nationals, Yankees and Astros are all in the top 10. All playoff contenders.

Does that mean anything? Probably not. But it's at least worth noting.

[Angel Oracle]

58 minutes ago, Jay said:

I wouldn't mind just once seeing the Angels pitch well in ST.

The expected starters have, for the most part.

The bullpen and the rest of the pitchers?   That’s mostly another story.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[Fish Oil]

Does anyone know if Upton is advising Adell on lines to the ball?
That blunder into the wall looked exactly like something Upton would pull.

[Torridd]

17 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

I think the most important thing is his health. I think Ohtani is feeling for things out there to make sure he can do what he wants to do, but I also Spring is a time when pitchers experiment more. If he's healthy, he'll be successful. I'm not worried.

[Angel Oracle]

Maybe CF is the one position for Adell, since he mostly played it early on in the org?

[Torridd]

3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Maybe CF is the one position for Adell, since he mostly played it early on in the org?

I'll rely on the experts here: can a player be adept at one OF position and lousy at another? I just figured if you can play the outfield that goes for all the positions with a bit of tweaking. And my take on Adell is he'll be fine. The talent is there so he may just need more confidence. Also, I'm more concerned in his offense. I think he will be a serviceable defensive player. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

11 hours ago, oldguy said:

Unfortunately, we don't have a two-year time machine to go back and get something for him in a trade.  

How did Adell get to be one of the top prospects when he can't field at all?...

[tdawg87]

43 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

How did Adell get to be one of the top prospects when he can't field at all?...

He wasn't this bad in the minors. But his raw athleticism is what got him so much praise. He's a freak athlete.

He's fine. His defense will probably never be "good" but he's going to hit. 

[bloodbrother]

49 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

How did Adell get to be one of the top prospects when he can't field at all?...

Extremely loud tools(raw power and speed) combined with having success at levels where he was routinely a few years younger than the average

[tdawg87]

Black guy.

[Docwaukee]

I know none of us want to wait, but there's nothing wrong with Adell becoming a very good player for several years by the time he's 25.  Yes, that's 3-4 years from now but so what.  Which makes it all that more frustrating they started his clock last year.  

[Inside Pitch]

16 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Agree on Ohtani.

As far as Adell, this guy needs a full minor league season in the outfield. Preferably at one outfield spot so he can get comfortable. 

Since he will never man CF so long as Marsh, Adams, and Trout are around I hope they move him to RF.  And while they may see it as a waste of athleticism, I'd sooner move him to 1B than I would Marsh because at least Marsh can play all the OF spots without embarrassing himself.

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

How did Adell get to be one of the top prospects when he can't field at all?...

Over the top athleticism can mask a lot of flaws.  Tools guys will always be given the benefit of the doubt by prospect hounds because they can do things physically others cannot -- it's also why guys like Fletcher don't get their due.  Unfortunately baseball remains a skills game, so all the athleticism in the world while helpful couldn't turn Michael Jordan into a baseball player.   

It's kinda funny because I was one of the people cautioning he wasn't ready last year and as bad as his defense continues to be -- Adell seems to have improved his plate discipline, contract rate is still crappy but there are plenty of MLB players with shit contact rates.  I'm less concerned today than at this point last year.  Improving his batting eye will be the key to his MLB success.

[BTH]

8 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

This is one thing that is a somewhat valid concern. Yes, ST stats don't matter. But if you look up the team ERA's there's a moderately concerning correlation.

I'm going to cherry pick here just for shits and giggles:

The Angels are 29th in ERA. Only the Orioles are worse. Texas, Seattle, and Colorado are all in the bottom 6. All teams expected to be terrible. The top team is the Dodgers, and the Mets, Jays, Nationals, Yankees and Astros are all in the top 10. All playoff contenders.

Does that mean anything? Probably not. But it's at least worth noting.

It means ZERO. I said it either in this thread or another thread, but it means even less than it normally does because teams were rolling innings up until today while Joe Maddon had only done so once.

That significantly messes up any cumulative team spring training stats because the Angels were allowing runs that other teams didn't when the other teams rolled an inning.

To use that as any sort of reference or indication into a team's pitching quality is worthless.

[Slegnaac]

In before someone mentions choking. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

It's kinda funny because I was one of the people cautioning he wasn't ready last year and as bad as his defense continues to be -- Adell seems to have improved his plate discipline, contract rate is still crappy but there are plenty of MLB players with shit contact rates.  I'm less concerned today than at this point last year.  Improving his batting eye will be the key to his MLB success.

Obviously you are more dialed in to prospects than I am, but I will firmly set myself in the camp of those who are more concerned today than they were a year ago. I completely agree that the key to his success is his batting eye, and managing his strike outs / walks / contact but I'm way down on his upside. I just think he completely lacks a feel for the game in a way I'd expect from a guy with his talents and experience. I'm skeptical of him ever adding value with his glove or even running the bases, which will force him to develop into a well above average hitter to truly be useful.

In other words, the margin of error now seems much smaller for him than I would've thought last year. 

[WicketMaiden]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

 at least Marsh can play all the OF spots without embarrassing himself.

Looking forward to having Marsh's 60 rated arm in Left Field to challenge base-runners trying to score on singles to LF. In recent years you just know Upton isn't going to throw them out. Do love a cannon arm striking down baserunners from the outfield.