Ohtani's Spring Struggles

[Angelsjunky]

Not worried about his performance, only his health. If he's healthy, he'll be really good - he just hasn't pitched much in the last two plus years and needs a bit of time to work out his repertoire.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Obviously you are more dialed in to prospects than I am, but I will firmly set myself in the camp of those who are more concerned today than they were a year ago. I completely agree that the key to his success is his batting eye, and managing his strike outs / walks / contact but I'm way down on his upside. I just think he completely lacks a feel for the game in a way I'd expect from a guy with his talents and experience. I'm skeptical of him ever adding value with his glove or even running the bases, which will force him to develop into a well above average hitter to truly be useful.

In other words, the margin of error now seems much smaller for him than I would've thought last year. 

I'm not saying my concerns about him defensively are less -- they aren't.   But most guys hit their way to MLB and his utter lack of plate discipline was going to be a massive obstacle for him.  He's shown signs that he can actually be more selective, so that helps him tap into what is likely going to be his primary tool moving forward..  the bat.

[tdawg87]

2 hours ago, Trendon said:

It means ZERO. I said it either in this thread or another thread, but it means even less than it normally does because teams were rolling innings up until today while Joe Maddon had only done so once.

That significantly messes up any cumulative team spring training stats because the Angels were allowing runs that other teams didn't when the other teams rolled an inning.

To use that as any sort of reference or indication into a team's pitching quality is worthless.

What does "rolling innings" mean?

[AngelsLakersFan]

21 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Im not sating my concerns about him defensively are less -- they arent.   But most guys hit their way to MLB and his utter lack of plate discipline was going to be a massive obstacle for him.  He's shown signs that he can actually be more selective, so that helps him tap into what is likely going to be his primary tool moving forward..  the bat.

Yeah I agree with that - he seems to be progressing offensively in the way we hope he would. 

We've got a small look at Jordan Adams this spring, and while he doesn't have Adell's power and he hasn't filled out much, if the spring was all I had to go on I'd think he was closer. He's looked like a natural in the outfield, and that adjustment he made to the curve ball on that bomb he hit the other day was impressive. Considering he's younger and better known for his dunking skills than baseball, despite his lack of a track record I think I might be officially higher on him than Adell right now.

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

What does "rolling innings" mean?

He's referring to the rule that has let the defensive manager end the inning without recording 3 outs if he is so inclined.

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

What does "rolling innings" mean?

That BS where the bases are loaded and the pitching team ends the inning because "pitch count".   

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

That BS where the bases are loaded and the pitching team ends the inning because "pitch count".   

That's absolutely the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

That's absolutely the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Mariners rolled the inning over 5 times in one game...  Five times.

[tdawg87]

11 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Mariners rolled the inning over 5 times in one game...  Five times.

That was probably Dipoto's idea.

[Lou]

10 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

That was probably Dipoto's idea.

Not entirely. He quit after the third one.

[Taylor]

44 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Mariners rolled the inning over 5 times in one game...  Five times.

Of course they did.

[sammyscioscia]

58 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Yeah I agree with that - he seems to be progressing offensively in the way we hope he would. 

We've got a small look at Jordan Adams this spring, and while he doesn't have Adell's power and he hasn't filled out much, if the spring was all I had to go on I'd think he was closer. He's looked like a natural in the outfield, and that adjustment he made to the curve ball on that bomb he hit the other day was impressive. Considering he's younger and better known for his dunking skills than baseball, despite his lack of a track record I think I might be officially higher on him than Adell right now.

interesting take, thanks

[Inside Pitch]

53 minutes ago, Lou said:

Not entirely. He quit after the third one.

I heart you...

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, cvdog said:

He can't hit. He can't field.  Who the hell was responsible for designating him a top prospect.  

The entirely of MLB and every scouting dept therein.

[tdawg87]

20 minutes ago, cvdog said:

He can't hit. He can't field.  Who the hell was responsible for designating him a top prospect.  And can we please stop with this ridiculous "Ohtani is a pitcher" experiment. The only way he'll ever help this team is to focus all his energy on improving his hitting/DH skills.

Lol

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Mariners rolled the inning over 5 times in one game...  Five times.

Just think how disappointed Servais will the to find he can't do that anymore once April comes round. 

[Pancake Bear]

26 minutes ago, cvdog said:

He can't hit. He can't field.  Who the hell was responsible for designating him a top prospect.  And can we please stop with this ridiculous "Ohtani is a pitcher" experiment. The only way he'll ever help this team is to focus all his energy on improving his hitting/DH skills.

This seems entirely reasonable and not reactionary at all. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Obviously you are more dialed in to prospects than I am, but I will firmly set myself in the camp of those who are more concerned today than they were a year ago. I completely agree that the key to his success is his batting eye, and managing his strike outs / walks / contact but I'm way down on his upside.

If he wants to stick with the team he is going to have tighten up his defense. Because even if he fixes his batting we'll still need a RF and not a DH...

[AngelsFaninGA]

30 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The entirely of MLB and every scouting dept therein.

What causes scouting reports to be so off across the board? Seems like in recent years you can generally bank on the top 20 or so prospects being at least serviceable (Byron Buxton being the other notable exception)...and then there's Adell. Also seems like his ego did a complete 180 once he got to the majors. 

[tdawg87]

He's 21. Twenty-one.

You guys are ridiculous.

[Inside Pitch]

9 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

What causes scouting reports to be so off across the board? Seems like in recent years you can generally bank on the top 20 or so prospects being at least serviceable (Byron Buxton being the other notable exception)...and then there's Adell. Also seems like his ego did a complete 180 once he got to the majors. 

They arent off -- he's exactly what they said he was, people sort of dismissed those and got caught up with the hype.

Coming into the draft he was viewed as a supreme athlete with a questionable bat.  Then he hit the road running and dispelled a lot of the concerns about his bat.   The other thing that sort of added to the hype was how aggressively he was moved up.  He would hit a snag, adjust, dominate and then be moved up before the league adjusted to him.  Then it would start again at the next level.   Rookie Ball, Low A, High A, AA...   He's shown the ability to adjust.  But all along the way he's been riding those plus physical tools.

I dont get how they missed his defense being this bad -- that's one I have no clue on and maybe we have just seen him at his worst.  But for the most part he has lived up to what the scouting report said he was -- extreme athlete with the physical tools to be an all star.   He's shown those tools in his short time in MLB, he's also shown the concerns.  Dude just needs time in the minors.

His improved batting eye this year is a HUGE positive.   If he continues to build on that his speed power profile will get him plenty of chances down the road.   I've long been on the Marsh bandwagon and at times said he was the better or rather more advanced guy..  But if he had Adell's stupid level physical tools the hype around him would be ridiculous.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, cvdog said:

He can't hit. He can't field.  Who the hell was responsible for designating him a top prospect.  And can we please stop with this ridiculous "Ohtani is a pitcher" experiment. The only way he'll ever help this team is to focus all his energy on improving his hitting/DH skills.

This is a very bad post.

 

[sammyscioscia]

3 hours ago, cvdog said:

He can't hit. He can't field.  Who the hell was responsible for designating him a top prospect.  And can we please stop with this ridiculous "Ohtani is a pitcher" experiment. The only way he'll ever help this team is to focus all his energy on improving his hitting/DH skills.

No way man! 

 

I kinda agree with Adell's criticisers though, he needs time playing with players his own size.  He's wearing shoes two sizes too big.

[Billy_Ball]

5 hours ago, cvdog said:

He can't hit. He can't field.  Who the hell was responsible for designating him a top prospect.  And can we please stop with this ridiculous "Ohtani is a pitcher" experiment. The only way he'll ever help this team is to focus all his energy on improving his hitting/DH skills.

 

[Stradling]

You all quoted the one dude I have on ignore. His posts are less than stellar.