Maddon confirms Angels still looking at 1-2 more starting pitchers

[Warfarin]

6 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Rich Hill and Hamels, I source from LA Times. MT

Rich Hill actually would be a good signing, *IF* he signs for a very small amount - i.e., like a 1/2-3 type deal.  Hill is actually a good pitcher when healthy, which unfortunately he rarely is.  He's old (40), but given how many years he missed with injuries, he actually doesn't have the mileage on his arm you'd expect.  If you listen to him talk, he's actually rather smart, and frequently discusses arm angles, spin rates, etc - he seems to know how to really utilize his curveball very well.

He's someone who can probably pitch 60-80 very effective innings, which actually is useful for a team looking to help continue to improve their floor.  He only pitched 38 innings last year (granted, that's not bad given how short the year was) and 58 the year before that, but posted very respectable fWARs of 0.7 and 0.9 in that limited sample size.  Still, there should assuredly be someone more dependable signed ahead of him.  I'd welcome Rich Hill as a 3rd SP brought in, such that we are bringing in Quintana, _______, and Hill.

We wouldn't have to worry about having too crowded of a rotation if we added Hill as a 3rd SP acquisition, because given his health, he'd likely be on the IL for about half the year.  Still, for the innings he would provide, they'd likely be very effective innings, which is what we should be aiming to do - find guys who can help contribute to positive production, and avoid seeing the awful starts that we have seen from a lot of our recent SP projects.

[Lou]

10 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

When is a really good time to drop "bobs your uncle"? 

"All we need to do is sign Bauer and Bob's your uncle."

[Lou]

8 hours ago, HaloSpurs said:

Next time we sign a pitcher 

Damnit. All i had to do is read 2 more posts. 

(in all fairness, it's 3:55am here and I'm watching cricket)

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Rich Hill actually would be a good signing, *IF* he signs for a very small amount - i.e., like a 1/2-3 type deal.  Hill is actually a good pitcher when healthy, which unfortunately he rarely is.  He's old (40), but given how many years he missed with injuries, he actually doesn't have the mileage on his arm you'd expect.  If you listen to him talk, he's actually rather smart, and frequently discusses arm angles, spin rates, etc - he seems to know how to really utilize his curveball very well.

He's someone who can probably pitch 60-80 very effective innings, which actually is useful for a team looking to help continue to improve their floor.  He only pitched 38 innings last year (granted, that's not bad given how short the year was) and 58 the year before that, but posted very respectable fWARs of 0.7 and 0.9 in that limited sample size.  Still, there should assuredly be someone more dependable signed ahead of him.  I'd welcome Rich Hill as a 3rd SP brought in, such that we are bringing in Quintana, _______, and Hill.

We wouldn't have to worry about having too crowded of a rotation if we added Hill as a 3rd SP acquisition, because given his health, he'd likely be on the IL for about half the year.  Still, for the innings he would provide, they'd likely be very effective innings, which is what we should be aiming to do - find guys who can help contribute to positive production, and avoid seeing the awful starts that we have seen from a lot of our recent SP projects.

No. Just no. Everything you posted says Rich Hill is a huge waste of money and a roster space. 

[tdawg87]

7 minutes ago, Blarg said:

No. Just no. Everything you posted says Rich Hill is a huge waste of money and a roster space. 

Yeah I uh...yeah. I want no part of that. 

I definitely respect @Warfarin's opinions and he could very well be right, I just personally don't think he is in this particular case. 

We need durability, I think more than anything else. 

[Blarg]

There is nothing right about signing a starter for 60-80 innings. That's relief pitcher or what used to be a trade deadline pick up. 

[Junkballer]

10 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Yeah I uh...yeah. I want no part of that. 

I definitely respect @Warfarin's opinions and he could very well be right, I just personally don't think he is in this particular case. 

We need durability, I think more than anything else. 

In fairness, @Warfarin is only suggesting him as the 2nd of two starting pitching acquisitions.  I could see Odorizzi/Hill because of Odorizzis projected dependability, but not Paxton/Hill.  Not advocating for Hill but because he was essentially a reliever from 2010-12, if the rest of the staff is healthy he could be used as a spot starter/middle relief until the inevitable injuries occur.  Looking at several projections, he and Odorzzi are very close in projected ERA and HR/9.  He could be cheap SP insurance that also bolsters the pen, if he comes cheap.

[Lou]

Hill should be the 5th of our 2 pitching acquisitions.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Yeah I uh...yeah. I want no part of that. 

I definitely respect @Warfarin's opinions and he could very well be right, I just personally don't think he is in this particular case. 

We need durability, I think more than anything else. 

Thanks man.  I don't necessarily think it is the best idea, but I could see it as an option.

That said, perhaps a better approach would be to add a 2nd SP, a la Odorizzi/Paxton (although I am much more lukewarm on Odorizzi than Paxton), and then have the next SP acquisition be someone who agrees to a minor league deal, with an option to opt-out if he isn't recalled to the majors within a month.  Typically, you see MLB veterans sign those kinds of deals if they are coming off injury, or the market totally craters, etc.  I seem to remember Gio Gonzalez signing a deal of sorts like that with the Yankees, so perhaps something like that.

I'm not creative enough to figure out who may fall under that category, but that would probably be a better use of roster space than signing Hill (or whomever) to a guaranteed deal.

[Warfarin]

47 minutes ago, Junkballer said:

In fairness, @Warfarin is only suggesting him as the 2nd of two starting pitching acquisitions.  I could see Odorizzi/Hill because of Odorizzis projected dependability, but not Paxton/Hill.  Not advocating for Hill but because he was essentially a reliever from 2010-12, if the rest of the staff is healthy he could be used as a spot starter/middle relief until the inevitable injuries occur.  Looking at several projections, he and Odorzzi are very close in projected ERA and HR/9.  He could be cheap SP insurance that also bolsters the pen, if he comes cheap.

Yeah.  I know Hill is met with a lot of skepticism, but if you look at modern day roster building, a lot of teams probably aim to have ~8-9 SPs who can combine to cover ~900 IP per year.  The better clubs have a few SPs who have options and they can shuttle back and forth between AAA, like the Dodgers do with May, Gonsolin, etc.

We have Sandoval and Suarez as immediate depth options who can make a start and be optioned back and forth, but given how Suarez has performed so far, he hasn't exactly been serviceable or even league average.  So the suggestion to fill out the roster a bit with guys who, at least when healthy, can produce better than league average starts would seem to be a decent strategy for a team that has struggled to fill out its rotation with guys who can do just that.

But again, I'll emphasize it isn't really my first choice of how this offseason would go down, but if it ends up being the direction we go in, I'll at least see the rationale for doing so.

[khouse]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

There are two Javy Guerras, but one of them is an IF.  Wonder if he misspoke and meant Junior Guerra who is a pitcher and is a FA?

You are correct sir...he did misspeak. But, none-the-less...the signing is intriguing...

Angels signed RHP Junior Guerra to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training.

The 35-year-old right-hander was released by the Diamondbacks in November after posting a 3.04 ERA, 1.35 WHIP and 21/15 K/BB ratio over 23 2/3 innings during the 2020 season. Since moving to the bullpen in 2019, he has compiled a 3.44 ERA and 1.17 WHIP over 107 1/3 innings in 97 appearances. He should have a decent shot at landing a middle relief role in the club's Opening Day bullpen. 10:37 am (EST)

 

https://www.fantasyalarm.com/mlb/player/junior-guerra-r/101719/

 

[eligrba]

It is strange the Angels signed a relief pitcher who, by all accounts, is pitching well.

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, eligrba said:

It is strange the Angels signed a relief pitcher who, by all accounts, is pitching well.

Don't look now but he's performed decently as a SP too -- 60 starts, 3.90 ERA.

[khouse]

20 minutes ago, eligrba said:

It is strange the Angels signed a relief pitcher who, by all accounts, is pitching well.

It is strange but it's even more odd that the Diamondback didn't feel he fit into "their long-range plans". But...kudos to Minasian for doing his homework. As these types of stories/situations are out there (like Carl Edwards Jr. who just signed with the Braves) that make terrific sense to sign to minor league deals.

[totdprods]

Regarding the second pitcher acquired, I definitely could see Minasian bringing in Archer, Felix, Folty, or Hamels, given their history with either Atlanta or Maddon. Someone that is the definition of a high risk/reward.

But that would be the second arm.

In order to clear rotation space, as much as I love him, Barria would be an easy trade target. He won’t be the headliner, but I could very well see a team that’s selling and working on a budget (Cubs, Reds, Rockies) happily taking him as part of a deal for Hendricks (and Contreras), Gray, or Marquez. Suarez probably falls into there too since he’s quickly becoming buried, especially with Rodriguez and Detmers now close. Canning could be discussed and while he’d be harder to part with, he’d also be worth more, allowing the Angels to include lesser additional names.

So a rotation could be:

1. Hendricks/Gray/Marquez
2. Bundy
3. Heaney
4. Quintana
5. Archer/Felix/Hamels/Folty if they show something  
6. Ohtani

With Detmers, Sandoval, Rodriguez, Yan, Pannone, and whomever of Canning, Suarez left in AAA or the pen in Barria’s case. Pena too. 

Or they simply sign Odorizzi or Paxton instead of a trade, but, I think I’d rather see them acquire someone with more control, known salary commits, and certainty than risk a third FA contract.

A package built around either Canning or Barria and Suarez, someone like Thaiss who is also getting squeezed from playing time, and a couple prospects in the Adams, Knowles, Deveaux group and the SS group might pull in one of the arms above.

Edited January 30, 2021 by totdprods

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, khouse said:

It is strange but it's even more odd that the Diamondback didn't feel that he fit into "their long-range plans". But,,,kudos to Minasian for doing his homework. As these types of stories/situations are out there (like Carl Edwards Jr. who just signed with the Braves) that make terrific sense to sign to a minor league deals.

Yeah, he's basically free.  He's not coming off an injury, he's not looking to rebound.  He's a guy who's been historically decent -- nothing special really, not someone to get excited about but a guy that stands a good chance to help a team.   Dude is basically the best version of Noe Ramirez only he can actually start if needed.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, khouse said:

You are correct sir...he did misspeak. But, none-the-less...the signing is intriguing...

Angels signed RHP Junior Guerra to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training.

The 35-year-old right-hander was released by the Diamondbacks in November after posting a 3.04 ERA, 1.35 WHIP and 21/15 K/BB ratio over 23 2/3 innings during the 2020 season. Since moving to the bullpen in 2019, he has compiled a 3.44 ERA and 1.17 WHIP over 107 1/3 innings in 97 appearances. He should have a decent shot at landing a middle relief role in the club's Opening Day bullpen. 10:37 am (EST)

 

https://www.fantasyalarm.com/mlb/player/junior-guerra-r/101719/

 

I think it's a solid depth move.  Guerra can probably be at least league average, maybe slightly above average.  Obviously that's not exciting, but we have often been undone by spectacularly awful performances in key roles (SP, RP) in recent years.  So the more options we have that can, at least, be serviceable, the better.

[khouse]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yeah, he's basically free.  He's not coming off an injury, he's not looking to rebound.  He's a guy who's been historically decent -- nothing special really, not someone to get excited about but a guy that stands a good chance to help a team.   Dude is basically the best version of Noe Ramirez only he can actually start if needed.

Yes...his flexibility is/will be definitely a plus. Which, again...kudos to Minasian for his research. As with a few more of these type of signings (including Schebler as well), he may well escape the comparisons to Eppler. Who, himself...did have some success with this strategy &, likely, would have been better served following as opposed to the high-priced hope he pinned on the likes of Harvey, Cahill & Teheran...

[Angelsjunky]

Minasian seems good at plugging "depth holes."

@tdawg87: "Gross."

[tdawg87]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

Minasian seems good at plugging "depth holes."

@tdawg87: "Gross."

No.

[totdprods]

Just now, khouse said:

Yes...his flexibility is/will be definitely a plus. Which, again...kudos to Minasian for his research. As with a few more of these type of signings (including Schebler as well), he may well escape the comparisons to Eppler. Who, himself...did have some success with this strategy &, likely, would have been better served following as opposed to the high-priced hope he pinned on the likes of Harvey, Cahill & Teheran...

I don’t see how signing Junior Guerra was any different than the signings of Bud Norris or Yusmeiro Petit, or trades for Jim Johnson or David Hernandez, or waiver claims on Blake Parker or JC Ramirez. This is as much an Eppler signing as any. 

When he spends guaranteed money on a reliever it’ll be a deviation. Aside from Iglesias that hasn’t really happened yet.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

I don’t see how signing Junior Guerra was any different than the signings of Bud Norris or Yusmeiro Petit, or trades for Jim Johnson or David Hernandez, or waiver claims on Blake Parker or JC Ramirez. This is as much an Eppler signing as any. 

When he spends guaranteed money on a reliever it’ll be a deviation. Aside from Iglesias that hasn’t really happened yet.

So it has happened yet.

[ten ocho recon scout]

9 hours ago, Tank said:

so were you there to keep a leash on rance (not gay) or was it the other way around?

We were both out of control. Demanding to drink from das boot. You can imagine our embarrassment when we found out octoberfest is in germany. And not in february either.

[totdprods]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

So it has happened yet.

Once. Like when Eppler signed Cody Allen for the same amount Iglesias is making.

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Once. Like when Eppler signed Cody Allen for the same amount Iglesias is making.

So if he does it twice he'll be different?