Is Trout clutch or not?

[Claude]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Let me try this another way...

At lower levels of competition, I am sure there are guys who get nervous and perform worse or concentrate more and perform better. But as you rise up the ladder, you realize that it's harder and harder to perform, period. You realize that if you can't be at or near 100 percent of your ability all the time, you are not going to stay in the major leagues.

There are a lot more "non clutch" spots than clutch spots, and if you go up to the plate at 90 percent focus in those spots, you're going to get embarrassed and won't be in the big leagues to get enough chances for you to demonstrate your great clutch "skill."

This is my opinion based on many years of hearing players asked questions about how they "tried harder" or something at a certain situation, only to hear them say: "Dude, I am trying as hard as I can every time."

@Jeff Fletcher this was a very clutch post.

[Docwaukee]

36 minutes ago, oldguy said:

Then use your eyes.  Here's an example (anecdotal).  DeCinces was not clutch.  Who was it that popped out in extra innings with less than two outs and a runner (the winning run) on third in Game 5, 1986 vs. Boston?  How did you feel when Benjie came up in the clutch (even when he was with the Giants)?  I always felt he was going to put solid wood on the ball (and he did).  How did you feel last night when Trout came up in the bottom of the 8th?  We are all experienced fans.  We know clutch when we see it.

Bengie Molina had a .746 ops with 2 out and RISP.  .780 ops in high leverage.  .730 ops in innings 7-9.  A .726 ops late and close.    His career ops was .718.  So yes, he was better in high leverage than he was in other situations.  

Trout outperforms him by almost 200 ops points in any given category.  You use your eyes.  I'll use my brain.  

[oldguy]

16 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Bengie Molina had a .746 ops with 2 out and RISP.  .780 ops in high leverage.  .730 ops in innings 7-9.  A .726 ops late and close.    His career ops was .718.  So yes, he was better in high leverage than he was in other situations.  

Trout outperforms him by almost 200 ops points in any given category.  You use your eyes.  I'll use my brain.  

except "clutch"

[Claude]

16 minutes ago, oldguy said:

except "clutch"

So who are the biggest chokers?

[Lou]

The Dodgers 

 

 

and Rangers. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

The Angels went from a 70 percent chance of winning to an 84 percent of winning with Trout’s double in the 2nd.

Is that clutch?

[Lou]

FACE !

[stormngt]

6 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I think there may be players who perform worse in the clutch but I think for the most part those guys get weeded out long before they get to the majors.
 

In order for a player to perform better, you’re basically suggesting that he’s not performing at the fullest of his ability in normal situations. And I don’t buy that you get to the major leagues if you aren’t doing that. 
 

I was always struck by something Jeff Kent said whenever he heard players talk about “stepping up.” He said that’s BS and you need to be “stepped up all the way up” all the time or you shouldn’t be there. 

What I am referring to has nothing to do with physical effort.  I agree with that by the time the make the pros they all give 200% physical element.

However I am a full. Reliever that there is a mental and emotional element to performance.  Those who are "clutch" excell in increasing the mental and emotional level in key parts of the game.

Maybe my flaw is that I am applying to baseball what I have seen first hand in basketball.

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 hours ago, stormngt said:

What I am referring to has nothing to do with physical effort.  I agree with that by the time the make the pros they all give 200% physical element.

However I am a full. Reliever that there is a mental and emotional element to performance.  Those who are "clutch" excell in increasing the mental and emotional level in key parts of the game.

Maybe my flaw is that I am applying to baseball what I have seen first hand in basketball.

I am talking about the mental part. 
 

You still have to have 100 percent focus all the time. 

[oldguy]

6 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Angels went from a 70 percent chance of winning to an 84 percent of winning with Trout’s double in the 2nd.

Is that clutch?

Umm.......no.   You're grasping at straws here, Jeff.

[Jeff Fletcher]

29 minutes ago, oldguy said:

Umm.......no.   You're grasping at straws here, Jeff.

Yeah. I guess you’re right. 
 

He’s just the same guy in the 2nd inning as the 8th inning.

Same guy in a blowout or close game. 
 

Bummer for the Angels.

[stormngt]

13 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I am talking about the mental part. 
 

You still have to have 100 percent focus all the time. 

I do not think it's possible for players to committ 100% mentally and emotionally.  There are too many variables that can be an impediment.   

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, stormngt said:

I do not think it's possible for players to committ 100% mentally and emotionally.  There are too many variables that can be an impediment.   

When they only bat 4 times a game, they can be mentally and emotionally invested during those 4 at bats.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 hours ago, stormngt said:

I do not think it's possible for players to committ 100% mentally and emotionally.  There are too many variables that can be an impediment.   

Ok

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

When they only bat 4 times a game, they can be mentally and emotionally invested during those 4 at bats.  

Again, I am going with my experience and basketball and not baseball.  I would think the four at bats a game would make it more difficult to stay focus.  It cant be turned on and off on the middle of a game.

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Again, I am going with my experience and basketball and not baseball.  I would think the four at bats a game would make it more difficult to stay focus.  It cant be turned on and off on the middle of a game.

With all due respect, I don’t think your experience is at all relevant to athletes playing at the highest level in the world. 
 

There are way more guys who have the physical tools to play Major League Baseball than guys who can actually do it. 
 

The difference is mental. The guys who succeed are the ones who can focus and concentrate at optimal levels 100 percent of the time. Even the guys who you think are “bad” are still better than everyone else in the world who doesn’t even sniff the majors.

I am just telling you this based on talking to hundreds and hundreds of them about it. 

[Brandon]

With all due respect 

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

With all due respect, I don’t think your experience is at all relevant to athletes playing at the highest level in the world. 
 

There are way more guys who have the physical tools to play Major League Baseball than guys who can actually do it. 
 

The difference is mental. The guys who succeed are the ones who can focus and concentrate at optimal levels 100 percent of the time. Even the guys who you think are “bad” are still better than everyone else in the world who doesn’t even sniff the majors.

I am just telling you this based on talking to hundreds and hundreds of them about it. 

With all do respect my experience in basketball is with players on the highest level.  I am not referring to experience as a high school player or the "old man's leagues")

I will concede its could be different in baseball as it is in different sports.  In fact I really fo not think you know what I am referring to in regards to mental and emotional approach.  I will leave it at that.

 

[happybat4]

OBP below .340. I'm really starting to worry.

[JustATroutFan]

5 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

OBP below .340. I'm really starting to worry.

This season is a 60 game season and it should never have happened anyways. Tons of guys like Trout and Baez are at a disadvantage right now because there's no fans allowed at games this season. Those two guys come to mind for me as guys who feeds off the energy of fans. This season was just a whatever for me. I was never really into it. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

This season is a 60 game season and it should never have happened anyways. Tons of guys like Trout and Baez are at a disadvantage right now because there's no fans allowed at games this season. Those two guys come to mind for me as guys who feeds off the energy of fans. This season was just a whatever for me. I was never really into it. 

Just stop.

[oldguy]

On 8/22/2020 at 1:57 PM, Jeff Fletcher said:

The Angels went from a 70 percent chance of winning to an 84 percent of winning with Trout’s double in the 2nd.

Is that clutch?

Was today clutch?

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, Game 6 said:

Which NBA team did you play 

I didn't play in the NBA.   However my experience is in scouting and coaching.  There are a people who know who on here and I wish to keep it that way.  

You can either take my word for it or not.  Really do not care.

[Jeff Fletcher]

42 minutes ago, stormngt said:

I didn't play in the NBA.   However my experience is in scouting and coaching.  There are a people who know who on here and I wish to keep it that way.  

You can either take my word for it or not.  Really do not care.

I didn’t mean to offend you. 
 

All I can tell you is from my experience talking to Major League Baseball players, you really can’t hit or pitch without your concentration being at the highest level you’ve got. Every time. 
 

The time a hitter has to perform is so small that his mind has to be 100 percent focused on the pitch or he’s got no chance. 
 

That’s all I can tell you. 

[stormngt]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I didn’t mean to offend you. 
 

All I can tell you is from my experience talking to Major League Baseball players, you really can’t hit or pitch without your concentration being at the highest level you’ve got. Every time. 
 

The time a hitter has to perform is so small that his mind has to be 100 percent focused on the pitch or he’s got no chance. 
 

That’s all I can tell you. 

Oh you didnt offend me.  Our conversations are very respectful.  Poster called "Game 6" offended me.  That was who my last comment was addressed to.

I understand what you are saying and I recognize what you are saying.  I also recognize the difference of the two sports.