Fangraphs / pitcher lists writers high on Patrick Sandoval

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, RBM said:

Probably the same people who want to trade Adell and sign Castellanos for 4/5 years and play him at first. 

I’ve yet to read that someone is in favor of handing Castellanos a 4-5 year deal.  

[Vlad27Trout27]

I would not mind bringing back white as a Bullpen coach. let him and Callaway share each other ideas.

[An0n]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I wonder if he got fired for the same reason as Ausmus: Arte saw someone else available that he wanted. 

Callaway was still the Mets manager when Doug White was fired though.

 

Do you think White or the Angels would consider him being brought back as the bullpen coach?

[Stradling]

52 minutes ago, RBM said:

It's a given. If you sign Castellanos it will be for at least 4 years. 

I guess we will see.  

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, RBM said:

Probably the same people who want to trade Adell and sign Castellanos for 4/5 years and play him at first. 

The opposite, actually.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

People here lol

In all seriousness, I think it’s impossible to judge any coach without talking to the people around him. The coach never throws a pitch, so by watching on TV you have no idea how much of the success or failure of the players is because of him or in spite of him. 
 

I spent a good deal of time trying to find out if he’s good or not, including off the record conversations since I know people don’t usually want to be quoted on the truth if it’s not positive. 
 

What I came up with was this: Smart guy. Knows his stuff. Trouble communicating early but much of that may have been just because it was his first year and he didn’t know anyone before spring training. 

I suspect White’s firing was an Arte thing, not an Eppler thing. 
 

Will Mickey Callaway be better? I don’t know. But he does start the job with more experience than White had, so likely he won’t have some of the early issues White had. 
 

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/09/26/angels-optimistic-doug-white-can-guide-their-pitching-staff-despite-difficult-first-season/

 

[tdawg87]

Interesting. Hopefully it ends up being the right choice. 

Thanks for the info. Everyone else here should read that.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Well that's good to know. Everything else I've heard is that White was completely useless.

But it's easy to place that kind of blame when the pitching is so bad.

That's been a narrative around here since he was fired but there was nothing to base that off of other than his firing. People here want to believe that the pitching staff will be better and part of that is putting down White to make the that possibility more believable.

[Stradling]

26 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

That's been a narrative around here since he was fired but there was nothing to base that off of other than his firing. People here want to believe that the pitching staff will be better and part of that is putting down White to make the that possibility more believable.

Well I think most based it on the performance of the starters. 

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

In all seriousness, I think it’s impossible to judge any coach without talking to the people around him. The coach never throws a pitch, so by watching on TV you have no idea how much of the success or failure of the players is because of him or in spite of him. 
 

I spent a good deal of time trying to find out if he’s good or not, including off the record conversations since I know people don’t usually want to be quoted on the truth if it’s not positive. 
 

What I came up with was this: Smart guy. Knows his stuff. Trouble communicating early but much of that may have been just because it was his first year and he didn’t know anyone before spring training. 

I suspect White’s firing was an Arte thing, not an Eppler thing. 
 

Will Mickey Callaway be better? I don’t know. But he does start the job with more experience than White had, so likely he won’t have some of the early issues White had. 
 

https://www.ocregister.com/2019/09/26/angels-optimistic-doug-white-can-guide-their-pitching-staff-despite-difficult-first-season/

 

@Chuckster70 can we have this link on the main page? Obviously White isn't with the team anymore but it's still very informative and can hopefully shed some light on the Doug White narrative (and coaches in general).

It seems like he was actually a damn good coach who suffered from some bad luck, bad talent, and a literal death.

I was meh on the Callaway signing (and still am) but hopefully he can work some magic this year.

[Claude]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

People here lol

validation 

[failos]

The one thing that is truly questionable about Eppler is his insistence to stick with Ausmus and White. I find it concerning that it took Arte to fire both coaches. 

[jordan]

I wonder how the young guys will adapt to Callaway after what seemed to be many new age techniques/ideas that came from White.  Too much tinkering, too many forms of thought don’t seem ideal.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

15 minutes ago, Φαήλος said:

The one thing that is truly questionable about Eppler is his insistence to stick with Ausmus and White. I find it concerning that it took Arte to fire both coaches. 

I am just speculating on White. I suspect it was Arte’s call but I can’t say for certain. And he obvious didn’t “insist” on keeping either of them because he fired both. 

[failos]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I am just speculating on White. I suspect it was Arte’s call but I can’t say for certain. And he obvious didn’t “insist” on keeping either of them because he fired both. 

I used insist because Ausmus' and White's poor results warranted a firing--especially if White's handling of Barria is to be believed.

[Pancake Bear]

27 minutes ago, Φαήλος said:

I used insist because Ausmus' and White's poor results warranted a firing--especially if White's handling of Barria is to be believed.

What was that?

[failos]

8 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

What was that?

Doug White implemented mechanical changes with Barria and Suarez. These mechanical changes did not sit well with Barria who felt his game had changed too much from White's tinkering--and both finished with ~6.00 ERAs.

[Pancake Bear]

17 minutes ago, Φαήλος said:

Doug White implemented mechanical changes with Barria and Suarez. These mechanical changes did not sit well with Barria who felt his game had changed too much from White's tinkering--and both finished with ~6.00 ERAs.

It’s not uncommon for pitchers to complain about a former pitching coach whose suggestions didn’t pan out. I don’t think that’s remotely unique to White. Same is true for hitting coaches, too, to some degree. Aaron Judge’s success was due to a mechanical change and telling the Yankees pitching coach to shove it when he disagreed with the changes Judge was making before he got in a groove. Coaches make suggestions. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 hours ago, Φαήλος said:

I used insist because Ausmus' and White's poor results warranted a firing--especially if White's handling of Barria is to be believed.

There were some issues with Suarez, who was also 21 years old and tipping his pitches. As for Barría, I think the organization caused his problems by sending him down. Of course, that’s also part of the game and if a player can’t handle it, whose fault is that? In any case, it wasn’t White. 
 

Anyway, I remain skeptical that managers or coaches have that much impact. The players are responsible for their own performance. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

7 hours ago, Stradling said:

Well I think most based it on the performance of the starters. 

That is absolutely a part of it but outside of Doc I didn't hear a lot of criticism on here until the "poor communication" article and subsequent firing.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

That is absolutely a part of it but outside of Doc I didn't hear a lot of criticism on here until the "poor communication" article and subsequent firing.

There were a couple Athletic.com articles about it.   Mostly it was about the guy just not being able to get his message across all that well to some of the guys and their not really understanding how to apply stuff.  They werent really critical of White directly but the ability to get ones message across seems pretty vital for a coach. 

Personally, I wasn't a fan of the catching and I do believe Callaway's practical knowledge having actually pitched will help with the younger guys.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

37 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

There were a couple Athletic.com articles about it. 

Weren't those released in the post-season? I don't remember much talk during the season outside of the back and forth some of us would have in the gameday threads about the pitch calling.

[zenmaster]

I'm higher on all our young pitchers who struggled last year after being forced into a rotation for many more starts than they should have had at this point in their careers. Last year was a bad year for many reasons I think we see many of our young guys turn it around this year when they don't have the same kind of rushed pressure, Sandoval included. 

[UndertheHalo]

Also, these guys are talking about taking Sandoval like in the 500 pick range.  I don’t know if “high” on him is the right word.  More like worth a flyer in a very deep dynasty league. 

[nate]

I was impressed with Sandoval last season.

Now if someone can figure out Suarez that would be great.