Angels the "Mystery Team" in on Machado?

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

None of those players carry the respect Pujols does alone in the baseball and Latino community.  Thats no disrespect to them, its just reality.  No player in the game can hold a candle to Trout.  Its not apples to apples.  The group you list are his peers, the guys i list are his superiors.  On this team noone would be looking to Manny to carry them, just to do his job.  
Now again im not suggesting we do it, im just saying that IF its possible to curtail his issues, those are the men that could do it. 

starting out from day one and the guy would potentially need a handler.  he couldn't keep from being an ahole during the playoffs when all he had to do was behave for a few weeks.  

having to constantly keep this guy in check is a lot of work and just not worth it.   

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

are the CWS the only team with an offer on the table?  Somewhere in the reported range of 7/200.  

the yanks bailed out.  the dogs had him on he team and never even considered bringing him back (albeit likely because of Seager returning).  

the phils are involved and there is a mystery team.   

This guy is supposedly an MVP candidate yet where's all the activity?  And at a cost that seems lower that originally expected.  

it's because teams don't want to take the risk on him due to his character and attitude.  

It's a huge red flag and most are appropriately heeding such a warning.  

 

I think the upcoming CBA is in a lot of owners mind regarding long term deals as well just to add to your list.
The reality regarding both Machado and Harper is that both want to get paid Trout money but are not in that same league.  both have fleas, lets be honest.  Harper had a down year at the worst time, Machado has attitude issues, neither deserves that level of pay based on those things but being the best out there there is this assumptions thats what they should get.  
Ive never thought either was worth more  200ish personally. 

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Stradling said:

Which just means there is a chance he becomes an option to a team because the cost is less.  

yet it doesn't seem a lot of teams are jumping in to get him even at a discount.  

[floplag]

Just now, Dochalo said:

starting out from day one and the guy would potentially need a handler.  he couldn't keep from being an ahole during the playoffs when all he had to do was behave for a few weeks.  

having to constantly keep this guy in check is a lot of work and just not worth it.   

I dont know if id say not worth it... if we got the production it would be.  Again im not in favor per se at the levels being discussed i just dont think its as absurd or out there as some.  

[Stradling]

Just now, Dochalo said:

yet it doesn't seem a lot of teams are jumping in to get him even at a discount.  

Yea, if he doesn’t want to play for Chicago or Philly he is going to take a one year deal or a deal that isn’t near what many thought it would be.  If he is all about the money then he will be playing for Chicago I would assume.  

[mulwin444]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

starting out from day one and the guy would potentially need a handler.  he couldn't keep from being an ahole during the playoffs when all he had to do was behave for a few weeks.  

having to constantly keep this guy in check is a lot of work and just not worth it.   

Yeah, he hasn't had to be accountable to this point and now you give him a guaranteed contract north of $200 million...what could go wrong?

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

I think the upcoming CBA is in a lot of owners mind regarding long term deals as well just to add to your list.
The reality regarding both Machado and Harper is that both want to get paid Trout money but are not in that same league.  both have fleas, lets be honest.  Harper had a down year at the worst time, Machado has attitude issues, neither deserves that level of pay based on those things but being the best out there there is this assumptions thats what they should get.  
Ive never thought either was worth more  200ish personally. 

but I bet Harper gets his 300+ mil and Machado is actually the superior player at this point.  Even Phillie seems to have made Harper their primary focus and Machado their fall back plan.  

Machado is a bad seed.  

[Stradling]

I’m interested at 7 years and around $200 million.  It is basically paid for by the graduation of Adell, thus the ouster of Kole and Cozart after 2020. Machado at 3rd and any number of options at 2nd from our minor leagues.  As we have seen the price of first baseman has gone down considerably so getting a decent one won’t break the bank.  There are just so many ways you can go with it.  I am not the biggest fan of having $70 million tied up to two players, but It would be nice having that fixture in the line up.  Also the left side of the infield would be pretty amazing on both sides of the ball.  

[Erstad Grit]

Machado seems like a douche and the lack of hustle is a concern.  But to say he's not a superstar is crazy.  If he really falls to 7 years low 200s we'll regret not landing him.  Pujols is a nice guy and hustles.......... not the two most important qualities.  

[yamsi12]

God I hope the angels aren’t the mystery team.

[floplag]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

but I bet Harper gets his 300+ mil and Machado is actually the superior player at this point.  Even Phillie seems to have made Harper their primary focus and Machado their fall back plan.  

Machado is a bad seed.  

Perhaps true, only time will tell. 
The only reason i even consider this is that we just have no depth at the position aside from middle infielders that could possibly also play 3B, so unless they are going to sign Mous for a couple years or try to trade for Realmuto or target Arrenado if he gets to FA... it solves a problem for us. 
Harper, not so much as we have Adell coming soon and a couple others assuming Trout re-ups 
 

[floplag]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’m interested at 7 years and around $200 million.  It is basically paid for by the graduation of Adell, thus the ouster of Kole and Cozart after 2020. Machado at 3rd and any number of options at 2nd from our minor leagues.  As we have seen the price of first baseman has gone down considerably so getting a decent one won’t break the bank.  There are just so many ways you can go with it.  I am not the biggest fan of having $70 million tied up to two players, but It would be nice having that fixture in the line up.  Also the left side of the infield would be pretty amazing on both sides of the ball.  

i think most of us would, or at least should, agree with this.  Will he fall that far i think will depend on whether or not Phily comes thru with the stupid money thing.   The chisox made their offer, its in Phi court now i assume to either beat it, or not. 

[Stradling]

There have only been a few $200 million contracts in baseball history, to me that combined with all of their other acquisitions is stupid money.  

[HaloNArizona]

I would be okay with Manny at 3rd.....

Trout, Ohtani, Manny Upton, would be a very nice 2-5 line up.

[Chuck]

Just now, HaloNArizona said:

I would be okay with Manny at 3rd.....

Trout, Ohtani, Manny Upton, would be a very nice 2-5 line up.

I would too. In fact, because of the defensive value he brings in addition to his big bat, I have changed my mind on who I would rather want between Harper or Machado if it was my choice. 

[Angelsfan1984]

5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I would too. In fact, because of the defensive value he brings in addition to his big bat, I have changed my mind on who I would rather want between Harper or Machado if it was my choice. 

I agree. He's a doucher but the guy can play. the left side of the infield would be disturbingly good defensively and he would plug into the middle of the lineup nicely. When you have a lockeroom with that many true professionals its hard to act like a turd. There was nobody in the dodgers or orioles clubhouse to be that voice to him. The most outspoken guy on the dodgers was puig...i'm sure that went over well.

[HaloNArizona]

Some numbers for you all 

Harper: 

2018 War - 1.3 Career - 27.4

2018 OPS+ 133 Career - 139

Manny:

2018 War - 5.7 - Career - 33.8

2018 OPS+146 - Career - 121

 

With Adell in the wings, a big splash that makes sense is Manny....

I will get roasted for this, but I do not think Harper is a $300+ player....I think he is overrated.  His 2015 and 2017 seasons were great....His 2016 and 2018 seasons...were very solid. His WAR last year for NL OFers was not in the top 30 players.

[Stradling]

I still think I take Harper over Manny because the idea of having two left handed bats in the same line up that are Ohtani and Harper just balances out a line up better.  Plus when you sign a guy to a ridiculous contract you do it in hopes of getting a couple of truly amazing seasons.  Harper has the higher ceiling in my eyes, thus making it more likely he puts up a Ruthian season.  

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, Cdaniel said:

Boras isnt Manny's agent Dan Lozano is.  Dan Lozano also represents Albert Pujols.

Ok my bad

[IEAngelsfan]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

are the CWS the only team with an offer on the table?  Somewhere in the reported range of 7/200.  

the yanks bailed out.  the dogs had him on he team and never even considered bringing him back (albeit likely because of Seager returning).  

the phils are involved and there is a mystery team.   

This guy is supposedly an MVP candidate yet where's all the activity?  And at a cost that seems lower that originally expected.  

it's because teams don't want to take the risk on him due to his character and attitude.  

It's a huge red flag and most are appropriately heeding such a warning.  

 

Ding, ding, ding.....

IMO, it appears that teams don't want to risk a long term contract to someone who might poison the clubhouse and not be a good teammate.

[HeavenlyHalos]

12 hours ago, jessecrall said:

Ozzie played at an All Star-level through the age of 37 and Omar held his defensive value into his 40s...they're anomalies and it would be incredibly naive to EXPECT Simmons to repeat that paradigm...but it is possible. 

 

[Stradling]

I think poisoning or ruining chemistry is over rated as it relates to bringing guys into a clubhouse.  

[Erstad Grit]

32 minutes ago, HaloNArizona said:

Some numbers for you all 

Harper: 

2018 War - 1.3 Career - 27.4

2018 OPS+ 133 Career - 139

Manny:

2018 War - 5.7 - Career - 33.8

2018 OPS+146 - Career - 121

 

With Adell in the wings, a big splash that makes sense is Manny....

I will get roasted for this, but I do not think Harper is a $300+ player....I think he is overrated.  His 2015 and 2017 seasons were great....His 2016 and 2018 seasons...were very solid. His WAR last year for NL OFers was not in the top 30 players.

I could not agree more. Harper could easily end up into a nice player but nothing that special. His defense is suspect. His offense number have been quietly pretty disappointing. 

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Just the reality that he couldnt keep from being such a wad while playing for Showalter the old schoolingest manager of his era speaks volumes.   Dude was all about the unwritten rules and yet you had Machado purposely going out of his way to bonk catchers, spike players, and generally be a degenerate.

One of these days one of the catchers is going to rise up and flatten Machado's nose. 

[Pancake Bear]

11 hours ago, stormngt said:

Pujols isnt a Boras player.  It is Boras that always leak to the media about some mystery team.  It is believed he dies this to create an environment where a team may bid against themselves and jack the salary up.

I dont think it was ever reported that there was a "mystery team" involved in the negotiations of Pujols.  I maybe wrong.

 

 

I was following it. Yes, they were.