Why haven't Harper and Machado signed yet?

[Angel Oracle]

It's seldom that highest ranked FA's take this long to sign.

As LOL as it is, the longer they go without signing, the longer Trout goes without being extended?  

[ettin]

Because it is the teams that need the players and the top players know this so it is to their benefit to let it play out and get the maximum amount of money. If the teams try to collude they can be sued so this is simply the players exercising their right to obtain maximum dollars by waiting for the first team to crack and pony up the most money.

It is the players that have become smarter in this process not the teams. Many of you take this as a sign the teams are in the driver's seat and they do have some control but they are the ones that want to win and Harper and Machado are good players that will get paid to help them do that.

As long as the market is wide enough to include at least 2-3 teams, any player will benefit from the competition for their services. The thing the players have to worry about is if their market shrinks all of a sudden and they are left without a chair to sit on.

[Halodays]

Their agents.Period.

 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Halodays said:

Their agents.Period.

 

This is such a cop out.  The agents work for the players.  The players have to know where approximately they want to play.  If Harper wants to play for the Dodgers he can do just that.  If Machado wants to play for the Yankees he can do that.  There might be some sacrifice in years, but at the end of the day if they are going to be happier playing where they want to play while getting generational money, then just do it.  Now if these two wanted to play for Tampa or Oakland then they have to understand they are about to get a ton less than their open market value.  In the big scheme of things, these guys are going to get a shit ton of money.  So if you want to play for the Yankees and can get $30 million a season from them, but the Phillies are offering $32 million a season, pick the team you want to play for.  

[Dtwncbad]

It is taking this much time because it is business.  The players hired agents to HELP THEM manage the process to get the best results, with much of that being protecting the players from making impatient emotional decisions leaving money on the table without the experience or wisdom the agent can offer.

I don't feel like they are overdue to sign yet.

[Second Base]

In my opinion, simply greed. The difference for the common man between 32 million a year and 35 is minuscule.

Honestly, just pick where you want to go, take their money and play the heck out of this game while you still can, and never worry about where you'll play again. That's what I envision Trout doing.

Playing this whole free agency game and waiting late in the offseason for a couple million more regardless of location just seems distasteful to me. 

[gurn67]

I know neither one is going to have to go the Moustakas route, but it would be the funniest thing ever.

[Angelsjunky]

 

7 minutes ago, Second Base said:

In my opinion, simply greed. The difference for the common any man between 32 million a year and 35 is minuscule  non-existent.

Fixed.

It isn't just the "common man" but wealthy men, like Machado and Harper. It really comes down to ego (on their parts) and greed (on the agents' parts). I think Harper fancies himself better than he is and wants to be paid more than any other player, even if he must know that Trout will soon make much more (and deserve it).

At some point our unsustainable top-heavy economy is going to stutter, stall, and crash. Who knows, maybe we'll see the canary in the coal mine in baseball, or maybe we're already seeing inklings of it. For instance, Moustakas last year.

I still think Machado and Harper will get paid - one (or both) to the Yankees, who can pay what they want. But Machado for 8/$250M and Harper for 10/$300M is still lower than most expected a year or even six months ago. But we shall see.

[Dtwncbad]

15 minutes ago, Second Base said:

In my opinion, simply greed. The difference for the common man between 32 million a year and 35 is minuscule.

Honestly, just pick where you want to go, take their money and play the heck out of this game while you still can, and never worry about where you'll play again. That's what I envision Trout doing.

Playing this whole free agency game and waiting late in the offseason for a couple million more regardless of location just seems distasteful to me. 

Don't mean to pick at you but can't you say the same thing about an owner?  Why is the millionaire player greedy if he thinks he can get $2m more per year but the billionaire owner isn't greedy trying to pay $2m less per year?

 

[Halodays]

31 minutes ago, Stradling said:

This is such a cop out.  The agents work for the players.  The players have to know where approximately they want to play.  If Harper wants to play for the Dodgers he can do just that.  If Machado wants to play for the Yankees he can do that.  There might be some sacrifice in years, but at the end of the day if they are going to be happier playing where they want to play while getting generational money, then just do it.  Now if these two wanted to play for Tampa or Oakland then they have to understand they are about to get a ton less than their open market value.  In the big scheme of things, these guys are going to get a shit ton of money.  So if you want to play for the Yankees and can get $30 million a season from them, but the Phillies are offering $32 million a season, pick the team you want to play for.  

Hey I don't like it anymore than you do but they have agents for a reason.  Everybody knows that Boras likes to drag things out and maybe Machado's agent is waiting to see what Harper signs for to get a better idea what he can get for his client. Really I don't care because neither one will be playing for the Angels anytime soon.

[mtangelsfan]

7 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

 

Fixed.

It isn't just the "common man" but wealthy men, like Machado and Harper. It really comes down to ego (on their parts) and greed (on the agents' parts). I think Harper fancies himself better than he is and wants to be paid more than any other player, even if he must know that Trout will soon make much more (and deserve it).

At some point our unsustainable top-heavy economy is going to stutter, stall, and crash. Who knows, maybe we'll see the canary in the coal mine in baseball, or maybe we're already seeing inklings of it. For instance, Moustakas last year.

I still think Machado and Harper will get paid - one (or both) to the Yankees, who can pay what they want. But Machado for 8/$250M and Harper for 10/$300M is still lower than most expected a year or even six months ago. But we shall see.

 

[jordan]

I think partly due to them not liking the teams that are interested (ie Phillies, White Sox). It doesn’t appear that any of the big spending teams are all that interested. Yeah Yanks appear to be interested in Machado, but I don’t know that they are going to blow anyone away like old times.  

And another reason is that teams are more inclined to wait it out. Waiting until late January or February might lower the price if only a little bit. 

[jessecrall]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Don't mean to pick at you but can't you say the same thing about an owner?  Why is the millionaire player greedy if he thinks he can get $2m more per year but the billionaire owner isn't greedy trying to pay $2m less per year?

 

Yeah, it's interesting that baseball economic discourse tends to come down to "Owners Vs. Players" whereas minor leaguers and stadium/club employees are the ones who are truly getting screwed these days. 

[JAHV76]

It’s not like the Angels are going to sign them so they can wait for the start of spring training to sign. I don’t care either way.

[Angelsjunky]

6 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

video removed because I find huge quotes to be necessary and annoying

Great song, great band. We're old af.

[Docwaukee]

there's no shot clock.  

each player wants to be as thoughtful about this process as they need to be.  I wouldn't care if it was the last day before spring training until a deal was worked out.  Whatever they do, it's a hugely impactful decision to their lives and their families which will likely dictate the remainder of their baseball careers.  

So as much as I think they're both douchy from a personality standpoint, the way this process is unfolding seems fair.  

Of course there's some gamesmanship going on but why should they acquiesce?  Do everything possible to get the right deal with the right team.  It's absolutely their right to do so and might be the only chance they get so I say take advantage of it.  Be thoughtful.  Do your due diligence.  I would have zero concern about the impact on the market overall.  

[mtangelsfan]

I don't get this whole greed thing.  It is all relative.  You guys realize that most of the world thinks the difference between 50k and 60k is miniscule.

Would you want to work for less than what an inferior employee at your company earns?  

[Dtwncbad]

I also find it notable that many fans bemoan player agents for advising/controlling the business transactions for the players but at the same time wag their finger at owners to have discipline and listen to the hired front office professionals to handle business transactions.

[halomatt]

Found this a little while ago...

https://deadspin.com/your-favorite-baseball-team-can-afford-any-free-agent-i-1830890838?rev=1546454467282&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

"...since Alex Rodriguez signed his then-record 10-year, $252 million contract with the Rangers back in 2001, Major League Baseball’s revenues have more than doubled even when adjusted for inflation. Team payrolls, after a similar adjustment, have gone up by less than 40 percent;"

 

Players and the union have a duty to keep the owners negotiating in good faith.  Bottom line:  it's a business. Teams and players don't give one little shit about the fans.  THIS.  IS.  A.  BUSINESS.

[Angelsjunky]

^Which is why the Angels are going to show Trout the money and give him whatever he wants to stay. He is so incredibly valuable to the franchise, both as a performer and legacy player (greatest Angel ever and player of his generation).

[Lou]

37 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

 

Zenyatta Mondatta is a great album 

[beatlesrule]

[ettin]

Saw this article too, today, which is also a good reminder of why things are slow: https://www.redreporter.com/2019/1/2/18165650/mlb-rumors-bryce-harper-manny-machado-dallas-keuchel

[mtangelsfan]

2 minutes ago, Randy Gradishar said:

50k and 60k could be the difference between living somewhere where you get murdered and somewhere you don't. Nobody's getting murdered at 100k+.

That isn't how 2nd and 3rd world countries view it.  Which was my point.

[red321]

$$$$$$

 

this was another edition if simple answers to simple questions...thanks for playing.