2018 Hot Stove League

[Lou]

1 minute ago, m0nkey said:

You don't know my build.  I can take on puig

haha nice recall 

[Barrett]

34 minutes ago, Lou said:

go on 

There are so many factors to go into it. But today is getting kind of hectic so I may address all of how I got to the number but long story short 48. But realistically 45-55

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

I really think this is an excuse to turn over a bunch of players he doesn't care much for as opposed to an actual rebuild.  

All things point to him being horribly impatient

He drafts college players because they are closer to the majors
He trades away from the farm constantly because he doesn't want to take the time to develop those guys and wait for them to get to the majors. 
Every resource goes to the major league club even when he's exchanging out major leaguers.  
And when things don't go as planned, he turns over the major league roster for other major league player which is what he's going to do this year.  

Dude just has a penchant to create holes to fill holes then have to go back to fill the new holes by creating new ones.   

In the last year+ he's traded away a CF, then tried to be the smartest guy in the room by trading for a 2B who he believed could play CF only to turn around and trade for the same CF he had traded for (and then away), two years previously.

JD, the GM with ADHD.

Would anyone here be surprised to see him try to reconnect with Iannetta now that he's created a huge gaping hole at C?

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Dude just has a penchant to create holes to fill holes then have to go back to fill the new holes by creating new ones.   

In the last year+ he's traded away a CF, then tried to be the smartest guy in the room by trading for a 2B who he believed could play CF only to turn around and trade for the same CF he had traded for (and then away), two years previously.

JD, the GM with ADHD.

Would anyone here be surprised to see him try to reconnect with Iannetta now that he's created a huge gaping hole at C?

no.

He'll trade away segura for a C

then he'll trade mallex smith for a SS. 

 

 

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

no.

He'll trade away segura for a C

then he'll trade mallex smith for a SS. 

 

 

I stand corrected...

[Docwaukee]

looking at it objectively though and not taking history into account, He can probably fill C with Suzuki, and now he's got a really nice leadoff hitter and CFer with four years of control.   

If he turns Segura into an up and coming position player and good starting pitcher and does the same with Paxton, they're probably no worse for wear and could compete for a bit longer than they would have with their current roster.  

the problem is that there's no room for error.  The guy he trades for has to work out because there's no one in the farm as depth.  

[Second Base]

10 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Mallex Smith

traded by the braves with Shae Simmons for Thomas Burrows and Luiz Gohara

traded by the M's to tampa with Carlos Vargas and and Ryan Yarbrough for Drew Smyly

traded by the Rays with Jake Fraley to the M's for Mike Zunino, Guillermo Heredia, and Michael Plassmeyer. 

So the M's end up with Mallex Smith and Jake Fraley for Zunino, Heredia, Plassmeyer, Gohara,  Thomas Burrows, Carlos Vargas, and Ryan Yarbrough.  

Shae Simmons was released.  pitched 7.2 innings for the M's in 2017.  Age 28.  
Smyly never threw a pitch for the M's
Jake Fraley is a 23yo OFer with a .962 ops in A+ this year.  2nd rounder of the 2016 draft for the rays.  
Smith - 3.5 WAR in 2018 with a .773 ops and 40 steals. Age 25.  

Luiz Gohara is a top 100 prospect and would be the M's #1
Thomas Burrows is the Braves #19 prospect.  He's a lefty reliever with 86k in 67.2ip and a 2.66 era between A+/AA this year.  He's 24.  
Carlos Vargas had a .746 ops in rookie ball as a 19yo.  He plays 3b/1b and a little SS.  
Ryan Yarbrough is 26 and had a 3.91 era in 147.1 ip for the rays this year with 128k.  He has a 3.22 era in the minors with 404k in 425ip.  
Mike Zunino has 7 WAR over the last 3 years and two more years of club control.  
Heredia is a 27 yo 4th OFer at best 
Plassmeyer is 22 yo and the M's 4th rounder from 2018.  He had 44k in 24.0 ip and a 2.25 era in A-  over 12 starts.  
 

Jerry Dipoto is so freakin' bad at this.  How does the media not see through the facade?  It takes 5 minutes of research.  No wonder other teams take advantage of him like arrogant jock and the drunk girl at the party with daddy issues. 

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Ender said:

Smyly was bad shitty luck and I don't care about anyone in those prospect lists besides Gohara, high chance none of them amount to anything. 

Trading Gohara was dumb, but back then Smyly was a known quantity ... Gohara may not even be that good in the MLB anyway ... after all he was a Mariner.

Ryan Yarbrough says, "Sup bra."

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

But he totally hasn't wasted their resources and if you believe his bullshit, he's made them younger and given them more years of control....   It really is amazing to watch now that he's somewhere else...  

I know he's the GM of a rival team, but it still pains me to see what he does.  He's crippled Seattle so bad that their playoff drought is going to reach 30 years, and the worst part is, they don't even realize it happening!

Take MLBTR's reporting of this trade for example.  It starts off with a lengthy quote from jerry Dipoto regarding the trade, while no one from the Rays says anything.  MLBTR is an integral part of the "media" in this case the media itself is all over his jock.  He flashes a smile and manipulates them like it's his job. 

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Jerry Dipoto is so freakin' bad at this.  How does the media not see through the facade?  It takes 5 minutes of research.  No wonder other teams take advantage of him like arrogant jock and the drunk girl at the party with daddy issues. 

it took a lot of us here over two years to see it.  

 

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

Ryan Yarbrough says, "Sup bra."

and Vargas and Burrows.  those players likely won't amount to much, but it's the slow erosion of currency.  

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

also, you have no idea how old I am. 

I don't think he does, but I think the age of the girl from your picture is probably 18-22.  And what a wonderful 18-22 year old she is.  Or I should say was....that's been your profile pic for a few years so she might be a 30 years old smoker and a mother of six by now.  

[Lou]

Just now, Second Base said:

I don't think he does, but I think the age of the girl from your picture is probably 18-22.  And what a wonderful 18-22 year old she is.  Or I should say was....that's been your profile pic for a few years so she might be a 30 years old smoker and a mother of six by now.  

Ha. it's the only pic I've ever used, so "a few years" is way off. 

 

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Ender said:

Smyly was bad shitty luck and I don't care about anyone in those prospect lists besides Gohara, high chance none of them amount to anything. 

Trading Gohara was dumb, but back then Smyly was a known quantity ... Gohara may not even be that good in the MLB anyway ... after all he was a Mariner.

Luis Rengifo says, "Hola senor, que tal?"

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, Ender said:

Smyly was bad shitty luck and I don't care about anyone in those prospect lists besides Gohara, high chance none of them amount to anything. 

Trading Gohara was dumb, but back then Smyly was a known quantity ... Gohara may not even be that good in the MLB anyway ... after all he was a Mariner.

Thomas Burrows didn't say anything to you.  Instead he buzzed a 95 mph fastball by your head that had "career 2.43 ERA, 12.2 K/9, has reached AA and is currently posting yet another dominant performance in the Arizona Fall League" written on it.  That's a lot of writing though, and it went by pretty fast, so you probably didn't get a chance to read it.  But yeah, Luiz Gohara something something...

[Lou]

Rangers sign Jett Bandy to minor league deal.

Time to look towards 2020. 

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

Rangers sign Jett Bandy to minor league deal.

Time to look towards 2020. 

apparently, the Bandy Man can't

[Inside Pitch]

30 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Ryan Yarbrough says, "Sup bra."

So does Freddy Peralta

[Second Base]

10 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So does Freddy Peralta

Yup forgot about him. 

[Second Base]

Obviously Dipoto doesn't purposely trade all these really good prospects.  But I'm thinking that when he's negotiating with another GM, they basically ask for the best talent in his system and Dipoto's default answer is "Yes."

But I seriously call into question his analytics team.  Shouldn't they be telling Jerry , "No, don't do that!"  I mean they don't even need proprietary material on this one.  Anyone with a computer and access to Google and BBREF could probably tell Dipoto those are some terrible deals to make. 

Or maybe Jerry does the whole "smartest man in the room" thing and completely ignores his staff. 

[Inside Pitch]

So -- Dodgers current ownership took control end of 2011, for the 2012 season -- the 6 year mark of their ownership was last year and with it the last chance to depreciate their investment as allowed by MLB..   Maybe it's just for show to gain investors but maybe like Arte before them, the Dodgers will be a bit more mindful of the bottom line.  Interesting development to say the least.

[Ender]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

Thomas Burrows didn't say anything to you.  Instead he buzzed a 95 mph fastball by your head that had "career 2.43 ERA, 12.2 K/9, has reached AA and is currently posting yet another dominant performance in the Arizona Fall League" written on it.  That's a lot of writing though, and it went by pretty fast, so you probably didn't get a chance to read it.  But yeah, Luiz Gohara something something...

Relief pitcher. Yawn. Dime a dozen.

Yarbrough, yeah that hurts too, but Smyly was basically supposed to be him or Yarbrough is Smyly. Maybe in another world Smyly doesn't destroy his arm and he signs an extension.

Carlos Vargas? Who? Who cares. Same with Luis Renigfo .... these are all players on NOBODIES prospect lists.

I'll eat a poop filled shoe if Luis Facking Renigfo has a career as a starter for you guys.

Peralta? Sometimes shit happens when you trade 19 year olds. He was a non-prospect when traded.

Every team in baseball has trades of "no names" that end up panning out. It just happens.

[Stradling]

I still find it funny how so many of us, myself included, fell in love with the dude.   I am the biggest Sosh apologist here and I remember the day Dipoto quit posting that if I had to choose between Sosh and The Jedi I would choose Dipoto.   Hindsight makes Jerry a fucking nightmare of a GM and were incredibly lucky Arte didnt Fire Sosh. .

[Inside Pitch]

11 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Obviously Dipoto doesn't purposely trade all these really good prospects.  But I'm thinking that when he's negotiating with another GM, they basically ask for the best talent in his system and Dipoto's default answer is "Yes."

But I seriously call into question his analytics team.  Shouldn't they be telling Jerry , "No, don't do that!"  I mean they don't even need proprietary material on this one.  Anyone with a computer and access to Google and BBREF could probably tell Dipoto those are some terrible deals to make. 

Or maybe Jerry does the whole "smartest man in the room" thing and completely ignores his staff. 

JD trades guys before they really flourish...   Peralta, Gohara are recent examples Niedart might be another one -- Alex Jackson sort of came to life after the trade before regressing last year.   Dude just views players as currency, not unlike Billy Beane did albeit Beane seemed to win more often.   It's not a bad thing as a whole but when you trade three guys for a platoon DH/1B like he did in Peralta's case, it just looks stupid/wasteful.

[Docwaukee]

18 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

So does Freddy Peralta

yep.  at the time, all those guys were super low level and barely on anyone's radar.  but for the -0.3 WAR Lind gave them.  chip chip chip away.  

Similar to us losing Ricardo Sanchez or Yency Almonte, or Mike Clevinger or Randal Grichuk, or Jean Seguar or Tyler Chatwood and about 20 others.  They didn't all end up being stud major leaguers but it took away future options.  

[totdprods]

20 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

yep.  at the time, all those guys were super low level and barely on anyone's radar.  but for the -0.3 WAR Lind gave them.  chip chip chip away.  

Similar to us losing Ricardo Sanchez or Yency Almonte, or Mike Clevinger or Randal Grichuk, or Jean Seguar or Tyler Chatwood and about 20 others.  They didn't all end up being stud major leaguers but it took away future options.  

This is one of the biggest areas where Eppler truly stands out over Dipoto, in my opinion. 

Dipoto would trade just about anyone that was a fringe prospect to fill a minimal 40-man roster need, or AAA depth. Trading for the sake of trading, even if they weren't legit prospects.

Eppler routinely nabs similar players to fill those same 40-man needs - but he does it essentially for free, usually snagging them off waivers or in trades for simple cash considerations, which I understand can actually be as low as $1. 

So if you ever see a trade where the Angels give away someone like Cameron Maybin to the Astros for nothing, remember that the money saved is likely helping land those same minor players that Dipoto would have been trading actual minor-leaguers for.