Winning feels a long ways away right now.

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

For one year he started over someone “better”. Although Cron and Valbuena were shit last year too.  

Cron is better than him this year he was better than him in 2017 and he was better than him in 2016.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Cron is better than him this year he was better than him in 2017 and he was better than him in 2016.

And he was an everyday starter in 2016, he was bad last year and this year he isn’t on the team.  

[Docwaukee]

Pujols replacement has to be realistic.  They're not going to replace a future HOFre, Trout's mentor, and clubhouse leader with a potential, marginal upgrade.  It's gonna have to be obvious and the Angels aren't going to pursue outside help.  It will have to be someone internal which isn't going to happen next year.  Thaiss or any other prospect doesn't have the pedigree to force Albert into a part time role.  

[Angel Oracle]

And after going through the month from h_ll, Trout will no doubt continue to learn from Pujols.

Just limit Pujols to about 200 total games in 2019-2020.  

[kevinb]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

And he was an everyday starter in 2016, he was bad last year and this year he isn’t on the team.  

He may have been bad last year but he was better than Pujols. Which is the entire point. Play players who are better than the players who are bad. I don’t care if it’s marginal. Or by 1% play who ever is better. End of story

[GrittyVeterans]

48 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

And after going through the month from h_ll, Trout will no doubt continue to learn from Pujols.

Just limit Pujols to about 200 total games in 2019-2020.  

So, 100 games per season of terrible production out of 1B/DH for the next 2 years. The last 2 years of Trout’s deal

Not how a winning organization operates. If this were Boston or New York they would have bailed on the deal already and he’d be sitting at home

 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

He may have been bad last year but he was better than Pujols. Which is the entire point. Play players who are better than the players who are bad. I don’t care if it’s marginal. Or by 1% play who ever is better. End of story

And once they weren’t releasing Albert for CJ Cron.  Cron a guy no one claimed off of waivers last week when he makes virtually no money.  

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And once they weren’t releasing Albert for CJ Cron.  Cron a guy no one claimed off of waivers last week when he makes virtually no money.  

I don’t know what that has to do with anything. U think anyone would claim Pujols if the Angels put him on waivers? Both aren’t great but I know who I’d rather have Cron. Which is again you’re missing the point Albert is worse than Cron and has been for 3 years. Angels chose the worse player in Albert. Because reasons. 

[GrittyVeterans]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

And once they weren’t releasing Albert for CJ Cron.  Cron a guy no one claimed off of waivers last week when he makes virtually no money.  

You have to ask yourself “why not?” In that case. Is the goal to be better or to appease Pujols?

According to you the organization isn’t interested in an upgrade (and Cron is/was definitely an upgrade). That’s concerning as a fan to me.

Its time to move on from Cron though, I agree. They wanted to give Albert one last chance to prove he isn’t done after the injuries. He has failed. I can understand the logic behind it at least

I will not understand rolling him out there next year. We can easily find a 1B that can put up a ~105-110 OPS+ and run the bases better. And that would be a real upgrade over what we’ve seen

the reality is we don’t need to find a superstar 1st baseman to upgrade on Albert. We need a league average starter that can put up a 2 WAR

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

I don’t know what that has to do with anything. U think anyone would claim Pujols if the Angels put him on waivers? Both aren’t great but I know who I’d rather have Cron. Which is again you’re missing the point Albert is worse than Cron and has been for 3 years. Angels chose the worse player in Albert. Because reasons. 

Because they weren’t going to eat $90 million for a marginal upgrade.  I have no idea why this is what you are choosing to complain about, it is CJ fucking Cron.

[GrittyVeterans]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Because they weren’t going to eat $90 million for a marginal upgrade.  I have no idea why this is what you are choosing to complain about, it is CJ Facking Cron.

It’s a source of complaint because the org is going out of their way to not pursue getting better at a position that needs it if it continues. Maybe it will change...or maybe Thaiss will be the next Cron or Morales

[Stradling]

Just now, GrittyVeterans said:

You have to ask yourself “why not?” In that case. Is the goal to be better or to appease Pujols?

According to you the organization isn’t interested in an upgrade (and Cron is/was definitely an upgrade). That’s concerning as a fan to me.

Its time to move on from Cron though, I agree. They wanted to give Albert one last chance to prove he isn’t done after the injuries. He has failed. I can understand the logic behind it at least

I will not understand rolling him out there next year. We can easily find a 1B that can put up a ~105-110 OPS+ and run the bases better. And that would be a real upgrade over what we’ve seen

No he isn’t definitely an upgrade, he is a marginal upgrade at best.  He is one win better this year.  Last year he was a shit player, as was Albert.  The year before they were less than half a win different.  Last year, Cron had the chance to beat out Valbuena and couldn’t.  In April Valbuena was hurt and Cron hit .233 with zero home runs.  We are talking about CJ Cron, guys you are living in a dream world if you think this is real life.

[Stradling]

Just now, GrittyVeterans said:

It’s a source of complaint because the org is going out of their way to not pursue getting better at a position that needs it if it continues. Maybe it will change...or maybe Thaiss will be the next Cron or Morales

Thaiss won’t be the next Cron or Morales.  Morales has been worse than Albert since Albert has been here or since Morales has been gone.  Thaiss will be here at the beginning of his career and Albert at the end.  

[GrittyVeterans]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

No he isn’t definitely an upgrade, he is a marginal upgrade at best.  He is one win better this year.  Last year he was a shit player, as was Albert.  The year before they were less than half a win different.  Last year, Cron had the chance to beat out Valbuena and couldn’t.  In April Valbuena was hurt and Cron hit .233 with zero home runs.  We are talking about CJ Cron, guys you are living in a dream world if you think this is real life.

Nope.

2017 fWAR

Pujols: -1.9

Cron: 0.4

2018 fWAR

Pujols: -0.1

Cron: 1.6

 

2017 baseball reference WAR

Pujols: -1.8

Cron: 0.8

2018

Pujols: 0.5

Cron: 1.5

 

Cron isn’t a good player and he’s STILL about 1.5-2 wins better these days annually. That’s how easy it would be to upgrade

 

[GrittyVeterans]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Thaiss won’t be the next Cron or Morales.  Morales has been worse than Albert since Albert has been here or since Morales has been gone.  Thaiss will be here at the beginning of his career and Albert at the end.  

Morales has a 111 OPS+ since he left the Angels. Pujols checks in at 108 in that time frame. So it’s definitely close but I wouldn’t say Morales has been worse

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Nope.

2017 fWAR

Pujols: -1.9

Cron: 0.4

2018 fWAR

Pujols: -0.1

Cron: 1.6

 

2017 baseball reference WAR

Pujols: -1.8

Cron: 0.8

2018

Pujols: 0.5

Cron: 1.5

 

Cron isn’t a good player and he’s STILL about 1.5-2 wins better these days annually. That’s how easy it would be to upgrade

 

Yep at the cost of releasing Albert, eating $90 million and possibly alienating Trout.  Yea, you keep believing that is going to happen.  Upgrade catcher, and as Fletcher has suggested get a guy that can play multiple positions including first base.  

[mulwin444]

Man, if only we had CJ Cron...we could have been (checks standings) 65 - 67 and wouldn't have Rengifo tearing up three levels of the minors.

[kevinb]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Because they weren’t going to eat $90 million for a marginal upgrade.  I have no idea why this is what you are choosing to complain about, it is CJ Facking Cron.

Because your missing the point. But I’m not going to keep repeating myself just so u can defend the Angels. I’ll end it at this. What’s the point in running a team if the person you are benching is better than the person who’s starting? The whole point of sports at the end of the day is play the player who gives u the best chance of winning and out of Cron and Pujols. Cron has now bested Pujols 3 years in a row. Anyway have a great night.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Morales has a 111 OPS+ since he left the Angels. Pujols checks in at 108 in that time frame. So it’s definitely close but I wouldn’t say Morales has been worse

Well if you are going to use WAR to compare both Cron and Albert we might as well use that same stat to compare Albert and Morales.  In which case since 2012 Albert is a 13 bWAR and Morales is an 8 bWAR.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Because your missing the point. But I’m not going to keep repeating myself just so u can defend the Angels. I’ll end it at this. What’s the point in running a team if the person you are benching is better than the person who’s starting? The whole point of sports at the end of the day is play the player who gives u the best chance of winning and out of Cron and Pujols. Cron has now bested Pujols 3 years in a row. Anyway have a great night.

Have a good night.  

[kevinb]

Just now, Stradling said:

Have a good night.  

Sorry one more thing if Trout is going to feel alienated because Pujols is benched. Then I don’t want Trout on the team. That might be the dumbest argument you’ve had. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

Sorry one more thing if Trout is going to feel alienated because Pujols is benched. Then I don’t want Trout on the team. That might be the dumbest argument you’ve had. 

Yes if that was my argument it would be dumb.  My point is releasing him could alienate Trout, thus why I said eating $90 million in salary.  If you want to minimize the relationship between the two go ahead, but it certainly seems to be a real thing.  

[Tank]

10 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Because your missing the point. But I’m not going to keep repeating myself just so u can defend the Angels. I’ll end it at this. What’s the point in running a team if the person you are benching is better than the person who’s starting? The whole point of sports at the end of the day is play the player who gives u the best chance of winning and out of Cron and Pujols. Cron has now bested Pujols 3 years in a row. Anyway have a great night.

you keep beating the drum for cron but keep missing the point. cron was jettisoned because he only play one position while marte and valbuena could both play multiple positions. this was explained to you the last time you kept hammering away at this argument.

it's okay that you don't like the decision (i'd guess most of us feel the same way, especially in hindsight). but agree or disagree, that's the decision that was made. maybe you should write to eppler and unload on him about it 'cause you keep spinning your wheels about it here.

[kevinb]

57 minutes ago, Tank said:

you keep beating the drum for cron but keep missing the point. cron was jettisoned because he only play one position while marte and valbuena could both play multiple positions. this was explained to you the last time you kept hammering away at this argument.

it's okay that you don't like the decision (i'd guess most of us feel the same way, especially in hindsight). but agree or disagree, that's the decision that was made. maybe you should write to eppler and unload on him about it 'cause you keep spinning your wheels about it here.

Dang it I can't sleep.  the argument is never a Cron vs Pujols it's better player vs Pujols. I get all your points. Mine is I would rather play the better player plain and simple, regardless of contract.

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Yes if that was my argument it would be dumb.  My point is releasing him could alienate Trout, thus why I said eating $90 million in salary.  If you want to minimize the relationship between the two go ahead, but it certainly seems to be a real thing.  

I don't want to minimize it. Let's maximize it and say they are best friends and Pujols was the best man at his wedding. At the end of the day it's about playing the best players and winning ball games. They interact on the plane after games but really, it's not like they are calling plays as if it was QB and WR or that they have to pass to each other on the court, or rink. It's baseball Trout plays CF and Pujols plays 1st and DH's poorly. put an iPad in the dugout and have Pujols face time Trout when he's on the bench. I'd want to play with my friends as well if I was a professional athlete, but if it takes away from winning ball games and Pujols does take away from winning games by being old and not as good anymore, than I would rather win than play with my friends.