Old Torii Hunter letter

[ten ocho recon scout]

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/torii-hunter-twins-mlb-retirement

Randomly came accross this. Pretty cool read. Torii was by far one of the most likeable guys that ever played here, and was likeable any other team he played for. Like I mentioned about Vlad, I remember some on here turning against him and him becoming a scapegoat (circa 2010/11) when the team was scuffling.

Looking back, the way he left was pretty trash. Rumor was they offered him 1/5 mill...then gave hamilton 125 mill....a guy like Hunter earned some overpay for what he did here previously, IMO.

I think that might play a role in the pujols kid gloves. They shit on torii at the end, maybe trying to make it right with pujols. Because I have a feeling that if torii stayed here, and was doing angels PR right now instead of Minn (especially with his son in the draft), we'd be a bit more confidant in trout wanting to stay here long term.

[Barrett]

You never overpay for something someone did in the past especially in sports. It's nothing personal it's business. When people pay for things they do in the past you get contracts like Pujols and ARod at the end knowing full well at the end of that contract there is no way they could live up to it. 

[Chuck]

I had a chance to interview Torii Hunter in the clubhouse back in 2009 for AW.com and he was just delightful guy to talk to, very humble and respectful to the media guys. Very funny too. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

14 minutes ago, Barrett said:

You never overpay for something someone did in the past especially in sports. It's nothing personal it's business. When people pay for things they do in the past you get contracts like Pujols and ARod at the end knowing full well at the end of that contract there is no way they could live up to it. 

I agree with long term contracts, but offering hunter something like what detroit did would not have hurt us at all. And in fact would have been far better than hamilton...

And theres nothing to say he would have signed it. But you at least make a fair offer to someone who was the face of your franchise for a good run. 

We did the same thing to vlad....

[AngelsFanSince86]

14 minutes ago, Barrett said:

You never overpay for something someone did in the past especially in sports. It's nothing personal it's business. When people pay for things they do in the past you get contracts like Pujols and ARod at the end knowing full well at the end of that contract there is no way they could live up to it. 

Yeah but it's a bit different when you are paying them for things they did in the past for your team. In essence you are paying them for the production they have given you. Plus Torii didn't get that much. They just low balled him when they should have just given him fair market value. But they wanted Hamilton. That move pissed me off from the start. I had disliked Hamilton as a person long before the Angels signed him and Torii was one of my favorite players. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

10 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I had a chance to interview Torii Hunter in the clubhouse back in 2009 for AW.com and he was just delightful guy to talk to, very humble and respectful to the media guys. Very funny too. 

I only met him once, but I was around him several times. I mentioned in another thread about trout, I always saw him being very polite to the waiter, clubby, etc. 

When he elected himself the host of the all star game in 2009, i saw him talking to a group of kids at the convention center. You could tell he wasnt made to be there, he wanted to be. 

[Barrett]

3 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I agree with long term contracts, but offering hunter something like what detroit did would not have hurt us at all. And in fact would have been far better than hamilton...

And theres nothing to say he would have signed it. But you at least make a fair offer to someone who was the face of your franchise for a good run. 

We did the same thing to vlad....

I agree they maybe should have offered him more on a one year deal. But I imagine Hunter was thinking longer term at the beginning of free agency than that. 

[Barrett]

1 minute ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

Yeah but it's a bit different when you are paying them for things they did in the past for your team. In essence you are paying them for the production they have given you. Plus Torii didn't get that much. They just low balled him when they should have just given him fair market value. But they wanted Hamilton. That move pissed me off from the start. I had disliked Hamilton as a person long before the Angels signed him and Torii was one of my favorite players. 

Disagree I don't care what you did for me in the past or what you did for another team in the past. In sports it's about production moving forward. Contracts are guaranteed and like we have seen first hand with Albert paying for past performances can hamstring the team for years forward. I would gladly take this another step forward as well and say similar to Albert I wouldn't offer Trout upwards of 40 million dollars going into his 38-42 years of age. I would much rather offer him a bigger contract for the years he will more than likely be performing and not have to buy out the later years when we know players will be deteriorating etc. But that's just me I know that is not how much fans think. 

[Jobu]

I remember Torii's BABIP was crazy in his final year and being fine with them moving on, thinking it was unsustainable. Turns out he just changed his approach and was able to repeat it for a little while longer.

[Stradling]

Every single free agent contract ever was for what someone did in the past.  

[Barrett]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Every single free agent contract ever was for what someone did in the past.  

Really? You've been in the room when having these discussions? They don't project what you are going to do going forward? Just what you did in the past? Hey when you were 25 you hit 30 home runs and batted 330 I am going to pay you 30 million dollars at age 38 because you did that. I have to think that is not how negotiations work in baseball or in sports. It is or it should be a projections based business. 

[AngelsFanSince86]

Well it always depends. Pujols' contract was/is ridiculous. There are various levels of overpay. Giving an extra year or a couple million more a year then what the market suggests to a player who has been valuable to your team, still has value left, and will be a valuable asset to the team from a leadership and marketing standpoint makes sense to me. As bad as Pujols contract is, I would feel a lot better about it if he had come up with the Angels.  Doesn't mean I would think it was a good move. Cards had offered him like 5/125. I think I would have offered up to 6/180 and felt comfortable with it as a Cardinals fan. 

 

Trout I would offer a 10/350 extension going to age 38 season.  The value he has already given this team on the field and also from a marketing standpoint makes this more valuable than it would to any other team. What he would mean to the franchise history to play out his career here is incredibly valuable.

Torii was a different story though. He was never going to require a contract that would hamstring the franchise for years.

[Barrett]

3 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

Well it always depends. Pujols' contract was/is ridiculous. There are various levels of overpay. Giving an extra year or a couple million more a year then what the market suggests to a player who has been valuable to your team, still has value left, and will be a valuable asset to the team from a leadership and marketing standpoint makes sense to me. As bad as Pujols contract is, I would feel a lot better about it if he had come up with the Angels.  Doesn't mean I would think it was a good move. Cards had offered him like 5/125. I think I would have offered up to 6/180 and felt comfortable with it as a Cardinals fan. 

 

Trout I would offer a 10/350 extension going to age 38 season.  The value he has already given this team on the field and also from a marketing standpoint makes this more valuable than it would to any other team. What he would mean to the franchise history to play out his career here is incredibly valuable.

Torii was a different story though. He was never going to require a contract that would hamstring the franchise for years.

I agree I would go to age 36 to 38 on a Trout deal even paying extra millions during those years but I wouldn't go past the 38 year. I wouldn't touch a year 39 or 40 for a player. Even if it was an icon like Trout or Jeter etc. I just wouldn't there is no way they can live up to the expectations or live up to it making the team better. I'd pay an extra 5 million per year for prime years than waste another 35 plus per year on someones decline. 

[Roy Hobbs]

18 minutes ago, Barrett said:

Really? You've been in the room when having these discussions? They don't project what you are going to do going forward? Just what you did in the past? Hey when you were 25 you hit 30 home runs and batted 330 I am going to pay you 30 million dollars at age 38 because you did that. I have to think that is not how negotiations work in baseball or in sports. It is or it should be a projections based business. 

How can they project what you are going to do without looking at what you have done in the past.As Stradling said all free agents are being paid for what they did,with the hope they will continue to produce the same level.

[Barrett]

1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said:

How can they project what you are going to do without looking at what you have done in the past.As Stradling said all free agents are being paid for what they did,with the hope they will continue to produce the same level.

Because they project what you are going to do. Similar in business. But with business you aren't aging like you are in sports. There are things to look at. different metrics. How other players similarly have done in later years. Everything in sports is a projection. They don't just look at baseline stats and say you did this last year so I assume you will do the same thing the year after. There is more to it than that. One would have to think especially with that kind of money invested etc. 

[AngelsFanSince86]

Jason Heyward

[Roy Hobbs]

Just now, Barrett said:

Because they project what you are going to do. Similar in business. But with business you aren't aging like you are in sports. There are things to look at. different metrics. How other players similarly have done in later years. Everything in sports is a projection. They don't just look at baseline stats and say you did this last year so I assume you will do the same thing the year after. There is more to it than that. One would have to think especially with that kind of money invested etc. 

You can't project without a baseline,with no baseline you would need a fortune teller.Projections are based on something,if you have no information you are just guessing.

[Barrett]

1 minute ago, Roy Hobbs said:

You can't project without a baseline,with no baseline you would need a fortune teller.Projections are based on something,if you have no information you are just guessing.

Exactly what I am saying Captain. It isn't purely based on what you did in the past. You have to project out what they will do. You don't say oh you're 35 hit 40 home runs and project that out 15 years and offer them a 15 year contract. It is all based on projections and what you project the person will do for the franchise moving forward. Not what they did previously, because that doesn't help the ball club today or in the future. 

[Stradling]

36 minutes ago, Barrett said:

Really? You've been in the room when having these discussions? They don't project what you are going to do going forward? Just what you did in the past? Hey when you were 25 you hit 30 home runs and batted 330 I am going to pay you 30 million dollars at age 38 because you did that. I have to think that is not how negotiations work in baseball or in sports. It is or it should be a projections based business. 

Of course they project, guess what they base their projections on?   

[failos]

Agreed. We can only hope that Torii joins the coaching staff in some capacity. Trout loves him.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, failos said:

Agreed. We can only hope that Torii joins the coaching staff in some capacity. Trout loves him.

Id love that. But im not sure how Torii feels about the org anymore. It was one thing to let him go to pay grienke. They really needed pitching. But they were pretty set offense wise at the time, and set on outfielders. 

That cheesy contract they offered him was kind of a slap in the face. Again, he wasnt abreu. Or matsui. Guys at the very end who were only here briefly. Torii was the face of the team (with weaver and lackey) before pujols and trout. 

If they offered him say 2/20, he may still have left. But at least it would have been a respectable offer.

[Lou]

Torii once said he'd play here for free. 

[T.G.]

Growing up, Roberto Clemente was my favorite player.  My first favorite Angel was Jim Fregosi and when Bobby Grich came along, he became my favorite Angel.  When Torii Hunter was with the Twins I really began to follow him.  Something about him made him my favorite "non-Angel" and when he became an Angel, I remember dancing around my house because I was so excited.

Torii's time in Anaheim was special. Every single time, I saw him in a public setting - be it spring training, before or after a game - he always left me smiling.  He was always kind, gracious, funny and engaging with fans.  Every. Single. Time.  By the time he was done playing in Anaheim - he had become my favorite player of all time.  All-time. 

I see a lot of Torii Hunter in Mike Trout.  I see the way he interacts with kids and fans and I honestly believe he learned that from Torii Hunter. 

Thanks for sharing that letter, @ten ocho recon scout it was perfect.

[kevinb]

Loved Torii. Met him at a bar once in Arizona for spring training and he was super nice and really friendly. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

40 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Growing up, Roberto Clemente was my favorite player.  My first favorite Angel was Jim Fregosi and when Bobby Grich came along, he became my favorite Angel.  When Torii Hunter was with the Twins I really began to follow him.  Something about him made him my favorite "non-Angel" and when he became an Angel, I remember dancing around my house because I was so excited.

Torii's time in Anaheim was special. Every single time, I saw him in a public setting - be it spring training, before or after a game - he always left me smiling.  He was always kind, gracious, funny and engaging with fans.  Every. Single. Time.  By the time he was done playing in Anaheim - he had become my favorite player of all time.  All-time. 

I see a lot of Torii Hunter in Mike Trout.  I see the way he interacts with kids and fans and I honestly believe he learned that from Torii Hunter. 

Thanks for sharing that letter, @ten ocho recon scout it was perfect.

Agreed. And that letter was really cool. He was q one of a kind type of player. There were better fielders, better hitters, few better than him at both. But you take his baseball skills with his people skills combined, and he was a fave.