If going over tax threshold to do so, will Arte Moreno re-sign both Trout and Simba two years from now?

[Angel Oracle]

Going into the off-season after 2020, both Trout and Simba are FA's.

Currently, they combine for $32 million AAV.   Pujols and Upton combine for $45 million AAV.

Trout will be 29 to start 2021, while Simba will be 31 to start 2021. 

Guessing what Trout and Simba will command in 2021 and beyond, maybe around $60 million combined AAV ($40 million for Trout and $20 million for Simba)?

Will Arte realize that it's no big deal to go over the tax threshold for ONE season in 2021 (minimal tax), knowing that $24 million AAV is freed up after 2021 (Pujols)?

Or is he TOO principled to even go over for ONE season?  

[Dick B Back]

That was easy... sell the yacht and do what you gotta do. If Trout leaves, that will be Arte’s legacy.

[Stradling]

Yes, because it is more than likely only for one year when Albert comes off the payroll.  I would think the Angels will go after Trout first and then Simmons.  If they lose Trout don't be surprised if they let Simmons walk as well.  Or if they have to trade Trout I could easily see them trading Simmons very soon after.  

[fan_since79]

If we're going to lose Trout, we'd better trade him and get a boatload of talent rather than simply lose him to free agency.

We're always rebuilding here, so let's do a final rebuild and fashion a contending team for a change.

Trout as the centerpiece surrounded by mediocre veterans is not the right way to go about it.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

If we're going to lose Trout, we'd better trade him and get a boatload of talent rather than simply lose him to free agency.

We're always rebuilding here, so let's do a final rebuild and fashion a contending team for a change.

Trout as the centerpiece surrounded by mediocre veterans is not the right way to go about it.

As you stated in your thread we are rebuilding, the reason for those mediocre veterans is to give the farm time to develop.  It is difficult to get great veterans on 2-3 year deals while we wait for the farm.  

[HaloNArizona]

Do I think he will...No I do not think he will

Do I hope Eppler can convince him to do so...yes I do.

Trout should be a no brain-er.  I would love to see an OF of Trout, Adell and Marsh.  

[Angel Oracle]

Because Adams and Knowles could be ready by 2022/2023, they could do a new Trout contract with an opt-out after 2 or 3 years.    That gives the Halos extra years of Trout, but also allows him to get a better deal and the Halos to keep that money free for others after 2022/2023.   Plus, that should ensure his going into the HOF as a Halos player, assuming he makes it.    Also, we would get to see a Trout/Adell/Marsh OF for hopefully at least 3 years.

[BackUpTheTruck]

I think both will be re-signed, and I don't think the luxury tax will be an issue.

[Second Base]

The luxury tax has always been an issue for Arte. Whether it's his unwillingness to pay extra money or if that's coincidentally this team's financial limit is uncertain (highly likely the former). 

Mike Trout is the third best thing that ever happened to this franchise. If you're not willing to raise you middle finger and blow past the luxury tax limit for the GOAT, then you aren't willing to do it at all.

I will say this, judging by Eppler's draft and international class, he's behaving like a GM that knows Mike Trout won't stay with the organization. I mean c'mon, Jahmai Jones, Brandon Marsh, Jo Adell, Jordyn Adams, Trent Deveaux, D'Shawn Knowles, Raider Uceta and Alex Ramirez all in a very short amount of time either taken toward the top of the draft or signed for 800k+ on the international market. 

I completely understand gearing yourself to become more athletic in the organization and in fully on board with that.

But eight of those guys over a three year period is another thing entirely. That's a GM specifically targeting outfielders, and I'm guessing you won't need that many to find a replacement for Kole Calhoun when Herm's already in AAA. 

There's a reason why our best prospects (outside of Canning) are pretty much all outfielders. I think Eppler took that many figuring only five will make it to be major league OF's, and of the five developing that far, you can count on three bring legitimately good enough to start, and you have to be open to the possibility of trading a couple more...

Basically draft as many as you can and hope you strike gold on a couple of them, like Adell and Marsh.

[BackUpTheTruck]

1 hour ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

I think both will be re-signed, and I don't think the luxury tax will be an issue.

To clarify, I think the Angels' payroll will be managed well enough so Trout and Simmons can be re-signed without paying luxury tax.

[Angel Oracle]

Scotty has a good point about Eppler's approach.   Now, does that mean that with those previously drafted players, that they can now put more focus in the first two rounds again on pitching?    There's only been one pitcher (Canning) taken in the first two rounds since 2015.

Or maybe, they trade Trout after 2019 and reel in a strong return group of prospects including two top notch pitching prospects?   Might be tough though, as pitching is at a true premium nowadays via injuries. 

[BackUpTheTruck]

15 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Scotty has a good point about Eppler's approach.   Now, does that mean that with those previously drafted players, that they can now put more focus in the first two rounds again on pitching?    There's only been one pitcher (Canning) taken in the first two rounds since 2015.

Or maybe, they trade Trout after 2019 and reel in a strong return group of prospects including two top notch pitching prospects?   Might be tough though, as pitching is at a true premium nowadays via injuries. 

I would trade Simmons (for pitching) before I would trade Trout.

If everyone pans out, our infield could be Rengifo SS, Fletcher 2B, Ward 3B, Thaiss 1B.

[Second Base]

29 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Scotty has a good point about Eppler's approach.   Now, does that mean that with those previously drafted players, that they can now put more focus in the first two rounds again on pitching?    There's only been one pitcher (Canning) taken in the first two rounds since 2015.

Or maybe, they trade Trout after 2019 and reel in a strong return group of prospects including two top notch pitching prospects?   Might be tough though, as pitching is at a true premium nowadays via injuries. 

My hope is that Trout signs a very long extension (12 years), Albert Pujols retires, Justin Upton moves to 1B/DH and we still have to trade half a dozen of them for high end pitching prospects simply because we've run out of room because we're so good.

So basically what has happened to Clint Frazier in the Yankees system, but times 5-ish.

[failos]

Well, I won't be following this team anymore if Trout leaves.

I'll always be a fan, but it wouldn't be worth my time to follow them. So, Arte better re-sign him, else he should sell the team.

[WeatherWonk]

38 minutes ago, failos said:

Well, I won't be following this team anymore if Trout leaves.

I'll always be a fan, but it wouldn't be worth my time to follow them. So, Arte better re-sign him, else he should sell the team.

Man, that's a little extreme. NOBODY stays with the same team their whole career, anymore. You're setting yourself up for major disappointment, as long as you are a baseball fan.

I GREW UP IN THAT ERA, where guys played their entire career with a team, and I got over it. It was tough.

BTW, even Willie Mays played for a team other than the Giants. And, so far, he's the GOAT, of the players I've seen. Something like 11 seasons with a WAR over 9.0. Led the league in HRs four times. Led the league in stolen bases four times. 13 straight gold gloves, or something like that. Only struck out more than 100 times once, and that was when he was 40 years old.

Of course, he didnt leave in his prime. He was a dog and pony show for NY, where he got his start. So, that's very different.

Trout's got a ways to go, IMO. Trout's hitting against tougher pitching but, hey, you can only face what's in the league at the time you were playing.

[UndertheHalo]

why don't we wait and see how Simmons looks before we commit to re signing him ? he'll be over 30.  He's not Trout.

[Revad]

17 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

why don't we wait and see how Simmons looks before we commit to re signing him ? he'll be over 30.  He's not Trout.

No he’s not Trout but he’s a great player and it’s not like you can have great players delivered.  I agree let’s wait and see .  

My vote in the poll is that Atre would go over the tax.

[UndertheHalo]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge fan of simba. 

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, WeatherWonk said:

Man, that's a little extreme. NOBODY stays with the same team their whole career, anymore. You're setting yourself up for major disappointment, as long as you are a baseball fan.

I GREW UP IN THAT ERA, where guys played their entire career with a team, and I got over it. It was tough.

BTW, even Willie Mays played for a team other than the Giants. And, so far, he's the GOAT, of the players I've seen. Something like 11 seasons with a WAR over 9.0. Led the league in HRs four times. Led the league in stolen bases four times. 13 straight gold gloves, or something like that. Only struck out more than 100 times once, and that was when he was 40 years old.

Of course, he didnt leave in his prime. He was a dog and pony show for NY, where he got his start. So, that's very different.

Trout's got a ways to go, IMO. Trout's hitting against tougher pitching but, hey, you can only face what's in the league at the time you were playing.

It's all relative to what they're facing. Babe Ruth was the greatest ever relative to his competition. Mantle and Mays are there too.

If it were simply one on one, Trout's the GOAT. He's bigger, faster, stronger and better, but it has become such a global game now that it's near impossible to do what Trout is doing year in and year out in his early and mid-20's.

[WeatherWonk]

No argument on Ruth. 714 and .342 lifetime, says it all. Just incredible.

 

[TroutAdell]

2 hours ago, WeatherWonk said:

Man, that's a little extreme. NOBODY stays with the same team their whole career, anymore. You're setting yourself up for major disappointment, as long as you are a baseball fan.

I GREW UP IN THAT ERA, where guys played their entire career with a team, and I got over it. It was tough.

BTW, even Willie Mays played for a team other than the Giants. And, so far, he's the GOAT, of the players I've seen. Something like 11 seasons with a WAR over 9.0. Led the league in HRs four times. Led the league in stolen bases four times. 13 straight gold gloves, or something like that. Only struck out more than 100 times once, and that was when he was 40 years old.

Of course, he didnt leave in his prime. He was a dog and pony show for NY, where he got his start. So, that's very different.

Trout's got a ways to go, IMO. Trout's hitting against tougher pitching but, hey, you can only face what's in the league at the time you were playing.

I totally disagree that Trout is facing tougher pitching. When Willie was at his best in the forties and fifties there were only 8 teams in each league. The pitching was outstanding then and into the seventies. Expansion diluted pitching and the rise of the NFL and basketball further diminished the talent level. This is not to denigrate anything that Trout has accomplished because he would have been just as good had he played back then.

[kevinb]

How do we have such a high payroll and we really don’t have a lot of talent. I mean I get that Pujols is making 25 mil but that’s one guy. Trouts making what 35? The rest aren’t making huge amounts of cash yearly and this team can’t even compete in the division. It’s becoming more and more clear this team needs a complete overhaul. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

How do we have such a high payroll and we really don’t have a lot of talent. I mean I get that Pujols is making 25 mil but that’s one guy. Trouts making what 35? The rest aren’t making huge amounts of cash yearly and this team can’t even compete in the division. It’s becoming more and more clear this team needs a complete overhaul. 

It’s getting a complete overhaul.  We have 6 guys making over $10 million, Trout, Albert, Upton, Kole, Simmons and Cozart.  We will be replacing Kinsler who made $11 million and Valubena $9 million all for league minimum players. 

[ettin]

7 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Going into the off-season after 2020, both Trout and Simba are FA's.

Currently, they combine for $32 million AAV.   Pujols and Upton combine for $45 million AAV.

Trout will be 29 to start 2021, while Simba will be 31 to start 2021. 

Guessing what Trout and Simba will command in 2021 and beyond, maybe around $60 million combined AAV ($40 million for Trout and $20 million for Simba)?

Will Arte realize that it's no big deal to go over the tax threshold for ONE season in 2021 (minimal tax), knowing that $24 million AAV is freed up after 2021 (Pujols)?

Or is he TOO principled to even go over for ONE season?  

In Moreno's defense he did go over one season by about $927K.

[tomsred]

What will happen to Richards at the end of this year?  He was eligible to become a free agent, but he will be on the long term DL.  Doesn't the team have to keep him until he comes off the DL?  I'm not sure what rules apply here.