Upton has something to say....

[Ohtaniland]

4 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

He could say whatever the fuck he wants, just like owners can offer whatever the fuck they want.

Yes I understand that but they have a players union representative that should be the one conveying that message. It’s a free country but it also shows that he’s been a past disgruntled employee which most often than not follows him. Maybe that explains the 5 teams. Good clubhouse guy though. I guess.

[Hubs]

Just now, OHTANILAND said:

No IP it’s not that at all. I like that we finally filled the void in left field with a talented player. I’m just not sure that his comments are even necessary at this point in his career. He’s move on from the Diamondbacks, Braves, Padres and Tigers. That’s 4 different owners that gave him opportunities to make a nice living. Arte is now the 5th. Shame on those corrupt bastards. 

Upton was tied for 18th last year in WAR among all hitters. Among OF he was 8th. Among left fielders, he was 2nd or 3rd, depending on if you count Tommy Pham as a left fielder or center fielder. He played more games in left, but played some in Center, which ups his WAR value as CF has a lower positional adjustment. (+2.5 versus -7 for Baseball-Reference).

Upton and Ozuna are primarily left fielders, and Ozuna was only marginally better in 2017. Pham will definitely play CF next year as Ozuna obviously will play left after being acquired by the Cardinals.

He was traded from the D'Backs, Braves, and then the Tigers. So, whether you think he forced his way out, or was moved for other reasons, he didn't exactly have the choice there. The Braves and Tigers definitely were rebuilding and the D'Backs were trying something that made them also move Chris Young and Trevor Bauer for questionable returns.

 

[Inside Pitch]

43 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

No IP it’s not that at all. I like that we finally filled the void in left field with a talented player. I’m just not sure that his comments are even necessary at this point in his career. He’s move on from the Diamondbacks, Braves, Padres and Tigers. That’s 4 different owners that gave him opportunities to make a nice living. Arte is now the 5th. Shame on those corrupt bastards. 

Horseshit...   

You're doing what you always do.  You took what I think anyone paying attention would view as pretty innocuous comments and tried to paint them with the same narratives as always ..."It appears that he thought he would get more offers and more money when he tested the market. The market obviously didn’t agree with his assessment"   Talk about spin...

The rest of your post is just more of you trying to push a narrative...  I mean -- wtf does the tripe about 5 owners have to do with anything he said?  It's just your new "Cameron Maybin's been on five teams" BS..   Seriously, stop pissing on our legs and telling us its raining -- nobody is that stupid.   

Lastly -- let me quote you a couple more times...

6 hours ago, OHTANILAND said:

He should just let it go and move on. 

 

1 hour ago, OHTANILAND said:

he needs to STFU

How about you listen to your own advice?  

[Second Base]

8 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

 

I don't think Upton is saying anything that isn't true -- front offices are more and more removed from the days when they made emotional buys or held attachments to players.  The Angels showed themselves to be part of the new generation when they didn't so much as offer a minor league invite to Weaver.   In the past that would have happened if for no other reason because of sentiment, but times have changed and the game is all about getting value ...  

I'm sure some will try to paint this as something bigger... but really it's just a guy being pretty aware the game has changed.  Upton benefited from his still retaining value..  Weaver, not so much.  This mindset is also why I doubt the Angels would be willing to stick with AP should his 2018 resemble his 2017...   

 

 

Business or not, I don't picture the Angels cutting ties with Albert. He's a big part of that clubhouse and has a 10 years services contract attached to the end of his playing contract.

But I do think that if 2018 is anything like 2017, Albert will be moved down in the lineup. Then if 2019 comes and he still isn't performing, he'll shift into a bench role. If 2020 comes and he just isn't feeling the bench role anymore, then he and the Angels will both agree his playing days are behind him, and move to the coaching staff.

[Ohtaniland]

20 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Business or not, I don't picture the Angels cutting ties with Albert. He's a big part of that clubhouse and has a 10 years services contract attached to the end of his playing contract.

But I do think that if 2018 is anything like 2017, Albert will be moved down in the lineup. Then if 2019 comes and he still isn't performing, he'll shift into a bench role. If 2020 comes and he just isn't feeling the bench role anymore, then he and the Angels will both agree his playing days are behind him, and move to the coaching staff.

I think that when Albert is through chasing his milestones he will have no trouble sitting the pine for $28M - $30M or whatever it is at the time. Until then he’s going to keep playing on. 

[Stradling]

I was hoping to find Albert talk in an Upton thread.  These rich athletes are villains to some. 

[tdawg87]

Lol

[Ohtaniland]

2 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

I was hoping to find Albert talk in an Upton thread.  These rich athletes are villains to some. 

No they’re not villains. They are just part of the business that sometimes doesn’t go as well as planned. Albert has been injured or fighting injuries troughout his entire Angels career. Yes we’ve had tons of other injuries but the expensive ones have the most negative impact. He’s healthy this season so he should perform quite well. 

[Jay]

Agree that players have a right to their opinion but TBH I think they should keep it to themselves, or bitch about it to each other. As a fan I really don't want to hear a $100 million guy complain that he doesn't feel wanted.

 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Agree that players have a right to their opinion but TBH I think they should keep it to themselves, or bitch about it to each other. As a fan I really don't want to hear a $100 million guy complain that he doesn't feel wanted.

 

Or an owner pretend he lost money last year. 

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, hangin n wangin said:

In the year 2094.

In the year 2525

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Angel Oracle]

4 hours ago, Hubs said:

Don't worry I think he's going to manage for at least 6 more years. He's only 59, and has managed for 18 seasons. Lasorda was 10 years older when he finished his 19th and last season in 1996.

He has 1570 career wins and a .538 winning percentage. He'll pass Lasorda this season hopefully in May. Lasorda has 1599 wins. This season will move him to 19th all time in wins if the Angels win at least 50 games. Which they of course will.

If he manages 5 more seasons after that, he'll end up somewhere around 2100 wins if he maintains his winning percentage of .538. That would put him around 9th all time.

Two more seasons after that and he'd pass Sparky Anderson. Joe Torre is currently 5th at 2326-1997. That would take some doing, but if he manages until he's 69, which would be 10 more seasons, and the same age Lasorda was when he retired, and maintained or improved his .538 winning percentage, he has an outside chance to finish 4th all time with only Connie Mack, John McGraw, and Tony LaRussa ahead of him. Bobby Cox is 4th with 2504 wins.

 

 

If he does that, he could conceivably pass Lasorda, Alston, and Cox and move into 3rd place all time in games managed AND wins with one team (behind only Mack and McGraw). 

[Jay]

12 minutes ago, SuperTroopers said:

Or an owner pretend he lost money last year. 

Yeah I really don't need to hear that either.

 

[Inside Pitch]

7 hours ago, OHTANILAND said:

Yes I understand that but they have a players union representative that should be the one conveying that message. It’s a free country but it also shows that he’s been a past disgruntled employee which most often than not follows him. Maybe that explains the 5 teams. Good clubhouse guy though. I guess.

Narrative Buliding 101...    By Clod.

Step 1 -- get your message out....

Narrative #1 --  His actions are bad because I say so and I want to portray them in a poor light.

Narrative #2 --  He's been on five teams so he must be as bad a guy as I am trying to paint him as.

Step 2 -- repeat narratives ad nauseam...

Tell us again how you're not trying to demonize the guy.

 

[Inside Pitch]

7 hours ago, OHTANILAND said:

TORIITOWN says hi. 

"I'm not racist, I even have a black friend".

[Inside Pitch]

18 hours ago, Jay said:

Agree that players have a right to their opinion but TBH I think they should keep it to themselves, or bitch about it to each other. As a fan I really don't want to hear a $100 million guy complain that he doesn't feel wanted.

So..  When a reporter asks for an opinion and he says no comment -- then what?  All that does is open the door for them to be portrayed as surly or as a malcontent for the Clod's of the world.  Instead of creating a narrative that he's been disgruntled in the past, the narrative would be that he's bitter he didn't get his way.        

Has anyone actually read the article?  The dude gave an honest opinion about how the game is changing, particularly the FA process in responding to a direct question -- there was nothing remotely rancorous in his statements but I guess because he makes more money than Joe fan he needs to STFU -- is that really how the world works now?   The entire article is really pretty good because it's remarkably candid -- typical of the stuff being put out by The Athletic.

Meanwhile Joe Fan talks shit and tears the guy down as he pleases because well...  reasons..   And no, I don't believe you are guilty of that in the least... but others are.   To be perfectly honest I'm 100% on board with not wanting to hear them whine..  He just wasn't whining.   This isn't Patrick Ewing complaining that yeah he makes a lot of money but Ferraris cost a lot of money too.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

On 3/1/2018 at 9:05 PM, Troll Daddy said:

What bothers me most is that some of the smaller market teams are lying low and not spending their free money.  Then using the term rebuilding as a excuse to lose and get draft pick compensation to rebuild. 

It bothers you that they won't overspend on declining veterans rather than building through their farm systems? Sorry, but I'm not that sympathetic to the players. I have watched dozens of them rake in millions of dollars and then underproduce - all of it guaranteed. Owners are finally wising up.

[Jay]

20 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

So..  When a reporter asks for an opinion and he says no comment -- then what? 

I see your point that he's probably just being honest but, I still prefer that he say something like, "The past is the past, right now I'm really happy to be here..." etc. just to make sure nobody misconstrues his comments as whining.

 

[Troll Daddy]

2 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

It bothers you that they won't overspend on declining veterans rather than building through their farm systems? Sorry, but I'm not that sympathetic to the players. I have watched dozens of them rake in millions of dollars and then underproduce - all of it guaranteed. Owners are finally wising up.

Yea you’re right ... screw the players. As long as baseball has a handful of teams that care about winning and willing to spend then all is good. 

[Docwaukee]

I'm usually not a fan of either players or owners/mgmt using the press to air their grievances.  

But I don't think Justin is complaining as much as he is making an observation as to the state of the game.   

Why would baseball, a 10 billion dollar industry, be immune to what we see in all other businesses?  Quantification of value, risk management and assessment, big data driving decisions, economies of scale, maximizing efficiency and performance through metrics.  

The thing that's interesting with baseball is that the employees that are driving the way the business is run actually earn less than the employees performing the actual day to day tasks of the business.  

For me personally, it's interesting because there are a lot of parallels to the medical field.  Where I see many physicians making similar observations about our field as Justin is making about his.  

Anyway, I think it's a worthy discussion.  

[stormngt]

On 3/2/2018 at 8:04 PM, Inside Pitch said:

So..  When a reporter asks for an opinion and he says no comment -- then what?  All that does is open the door for them to be portrayed as surly or as a malcontent for the Clod's of the world.  Instead of creating a narrative that he's been disgruntled in the past, the narrative would be that he's bitter he didn't get his way.        

Has anyone actually read the article?  The dude gave an honest opinion about how the game is changing, particularly the FA process in responding to a direct question -- there was nothing remotely rancorous in his statements but I guess because he makes more money than Joe fan he needs to STFU -- is that really how the world works now?   The entire article is really pretty good because it's remarkably candid -- typical of the stuff being put out by The Athletic.

Meanwhile Joe Fan talks shit and tears the guy down as he pleases because well...  reasons..   And no, I don't believe you are guilty of that in the least... but others are.   To be perfectly honest I'm 100% on board with not wanting to hear them whine..  He just wasn't whining.   This isn't Patrick Ewing complaining that yeah he makes a lot of money but Ferraris cost a lot of money too.

I was wondering what the controversy was.  Upton said in the article that the "changes" weren't necessarily a bad thing."

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 3/1/2018 at 8:12 PM, OHTANILAND said:

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/03/01/justin-upton-teams-dont-value-players-as-people-anymore/amp/

I dont really see anything he said here as wrong. 

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

I dont really see anything he said here as wrong. 

“teams don’t value players as people”

 

I’m not so sure that the Angels agree with this. He was described as a good clubhouse guy and something something about being welcomed to the “Angels family” 

[Stradling]

16 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

“teams don’t value players as people”

 

I’m not so sure that the Angels agree with this. He was described as a good clubhouse guy and something something about being welcomed to the “Angels family” 

Did you read the article?  He was talking about his last free agency period, not the few hours he was almost a free agent this time.  

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, OHTANILAND said:

“teams don’t value players as people”

 

I’m not so sure that the Angels agree with this. He was described as a good clubhouse guy and something something about being welcomed to the “Angels family” 

Here is what Moura had to say about this FA period... 

It is alarming and weird that it’s taken this long for so many players to find suitors, no doubt. But if the guys get the deals that are pretty close to expectations, just later than they expected, that’s not so bad, right? What’s so bad is when guys settle for deals way lower. Lorenzo Cain signed in late January, but he signed for $80 million. But some of these first basemen settled for one year after a predicted three or four.

And here is Moura's opinion of Upton's response, all of which you are choosing you ignore because you're only interested in creating a false narrative..

The courting process is going away, you’re saying.

It’s hard to come up with an argument against that being the case.

And then there is this comment from Moura that perfectly sums you up...

Again, it’s difficult to argue against that. But if you tell that to a lot of fans, they will say, ‘Well, you guys are paid handsomely to account for that.

Lastly -- while you will no doubt continue to try to demonize him for no real reason other than you're a hater...  THIS is what he said about his situation with the Angels... 

"I was fortunate enough to be with a team I enjoyed playing for and checked a lot of things off my list. If I had to become a free agent, I would be in the same boat as these guys, standing side by side with the (Mike) Moustakases and guys that don’t have a job."   

Go ahead and spin his calling himself fortunate as anything other than a guy fully aware he was in a good situation, or what some might call "lucky" to be where he is.

5 hours ago, SuperTroopers said:

Did you read the article?  He was talking about his last free agency period, not the few hours he was almost a free agent this time.  

Of course he hasn't seen the actual interview.... he doesn't need to.   He's not interested in what he actually had to say or what it was in response to -- just how he could spin it to make him look bad.

Upton used 941 words in his responses to Moura's comments/questions regarding the state of FA this season..   Claude is choosing to ignore 935 of them to focus on the 6 that serve his purpose. 

But hey -- he's totally not trying to demonize him.