Defensive Runs Saved at shortstop, 2013-2017

[Chuck]

Defensive Runs Saved at shortstop, 2013-2017
1. Andrelton Simmons 144
2. Brandon Crawford 58
3. Zack Cozart 44
4. Francisco Lindor 32
5. JJ Hardy 28

— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) January 3, 2018

[greginpsca]

Two of those top 3 will be manning the left side of our infield.

[ettin]

Simmons should get Wilson's old shampoo gig because he is Head & Shoulders above the rest of that field.

[Warfarin]

With one signing, Billy landed us what should be a top 3 defender at 3B, *and* the best backup defensive SS in baseball.  Well done, Billy!

[Troll Daddy]

25 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Geez... Simmons is so fucking good.

To have that much separation between him and the next guy is insane. 

Yes but did we win the trade

[stormngt]

Just maybe

The reason why Eppler has pulled quality out of the trash heap is because he putting excellent defenders in the field.

[T.G.]

I'm surprised it's that close.

[Taylor]

Simmons is god tier when it comes to defense. He could hit .200 and still be worth keeping in the lineup because of all these runs saved.

[ettin]

42 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Simmons is god tier when it comes to defense. He could hit .200 and still be worth keeping in the lineup because of all these runs saved.

From my 2017 Primer Series:

" Rest easy Angels fans we have a Curaçaoan God-King roaming shortstop for the next four years (and perhaps more…) and he is absolutely dedicated to perfecting his craft."

LOL, he is really next level.

[Second Base]

I watched Simmons' defensive highlights from just this past season in the other thread.  Sometimes, i have a hard time believing what I'm seeing from him.  Like it's too good to be true.  

So I watched Francisco Lindor and Brandon Crawford's from the last could years and just laughed.

All those diving stops they make, Andrelton makes standing up.  All those times they fall over, he's on his feet.  All those across the diamond one hop throws they make to 1B, Andrelton does without the hop and with much more velocity.  And no one goes in the OF like him. 

Hands down, the best defensive SS I've ever seen.  He might even be the best in history. 

[Chris]

Simmons and Cozart will say to ground balls, "None shall pass!"

[NachoPop]

So does Cozart move to 2nd base next year once Kinsler leaves?

[eligrba]

Great trade.

Thanks Billy.

[gurn67]

Billy didn't have the payroll room to improve the pitching staff by acquiring a few high priced pitchers, so he improved the entire pitching staff by acquiring Simmons. If you watch his Angels' defensive highlights videos, you'll notice how many of those incredible plays happened with runners on base and two outs. Many of those would have been momentum changing hits if a mere mortal had been manning short. Instead, you had a hitter, and team, muttering to themselves about what the hell just happened?

[WeatherWonk]

I looked at that table and asked myself, "how can Lindor be that low, as good as he is?" 

Answer: he's only had 2.5 full seasons. He didnt come up till 2015 and played only 99 games that year. Simmons has two full seasons on him in that table.

[WeatherWonk]

Hey, Chuck, since you are touting this statistic, can you tell us how "defensive runs saved" is derived? How do they come up with this?

[OregonLAA]

I know a lot of Giant fans and I’ve had people tell me Crawford is right there with Simmons if not better. Lol

[Docwaukee]

44 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Hey, Chuck, since you are touting this statistic, can you tell us how "defensive runs saved" is derived? How do they come up with this?

https://www.fangraphs.com/library/defense/drs/

http://fieldingbible.com/Fielding-Bible-FAQ.asp

see you in 11 hours.  

 

the simple answer is 'how many plays did a player make above or below an avg player at their position'.  

 

So one thing to keep in mind is that DRS is compared to avg.   An avg SS doesn't start at 0 WAR.  Even a replacement level defensive SS starts at 0.75 WAR due to positional adjustments.  

He saved 32 runs last year above avg.  and another 10 above replacement.  

He just finished his 27 yo season and he's 36th all time for dWAR with 21.9.  Likely to move into the top 20 by the end of the 2018 season.  Ozzie Smith had 15.9 dWAR through his age 27 seaosn.  

Fangraphs has a stat called Def which is basically another version of dWAR.  Since 2012 when he started, his total is 134.1.  The next closest is crawford at 90.6.  

One of the most amazing things I have seen about him is this.  Sometimes before a pitch is thrown, they will show the infield and he'll be, let's say, toward the middle shading well toward 2b.  Then the view will change to behind the pitcher and of the batter.  The pitch will be thrown and the batter will hit a ball toward the SS/3b hole.  I'll think to myself 'aw crap a base hit'.  The view will change and he will literally be fielding the ball cleanly right in front of him.  Not even to his back hand.   He'll just be standing right there.  

That's what separates him even from other elite short stops.  The excellent players will still get to that ball but with the back hand and an off balance throw.  

Here's something fun to think about.   He makes our left fielder statistically worse defensively.  Yeah.  That's right.  He gets to so many balls in short LF that actually works against the statistics of our LFer based on how DRS is calculated.  

In 2016 our LFers had a DRS of -5.  Simmons had a DRS of 18 (cuz he was hurt)

In 2017 our LFers had a DRS of -12.  Simmons had a DRS of 32.  

So that doesn't even show up in conventional metrics.  

Honestly, I think that's why Upton struggled a bit defensively when he came to the halos.  He was likely positioned deeper than he was normally used to.  I think we'll see him get more comfortable with this early on and be the solid defender we expect.  

Anyway, I've been watching baseball for 40+ years, and Simmons is the best defender I've ever seen and I caught a fair amount of Ozzie and Vizquel.  

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Anyway, I've been watching baseball for 40+ years, and Simmons is the best defender I've ever seen and I caught a fair amount of Ozzie and Vizquel.  

He is the very best defensive player I have ever seen.  The only person close was Edmonds and possibly Erstad.  Erstad did not have a huge arm.  Edmonds had Simmons instincts.  Can you imagine when Simmons loses a step and has to go be the best defensive 3rd baseman ever?  He has the arm, the glove, the reflexes, the first step, the ability to come in on a ball.  I honestly don’t think he will have to make the move to 3rd, but man is he a god with the glove.  

[ettin]

4 hours ago, NachoPop said:

So does Cozart move to 2nd base next year once Kinsler leaves?

Yes I think that is the plan Nacho.

However, it is always possible that if the Angels sign or trade for a preferred 2B he could stay at 3B potentially too. It gives Eppler options heading into next off-season.

[arch stanton]

Having Cozart means you can choose the best available player next year at either second or third. No need to define the role a year in advance 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

He is the very best defensive player I have ever seen.  The only person close was Edmonds and possibly Erstad.  Erstad did not have a huge arm.  Edmonds had Simmons instincts.  Can you imagine when Simmons loses a step and has to go be the best defensive 3rd baseman ever?  He has the arm, the glove, the reflexes, the first step, the ability to come in on a ball.  I honestly don’t think he will have to make the move to 3rd, but man is he a god with the glove.  

I think he'll be a SS his entire career.   The only thing that could stop Simmons from being in the HOF is if he doesn't play long enough.  He's got very few peers at this point in his career.  

[krAbs]

12 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Here's something fun to think about.   He makes our left fielder statistically worse defensively.  Yeah.  That's right.  He gets to so many balls in short LF that actually works against the statistics of our LFer based on how DRS is calculated.  

In 2016 our LFers had a DRS of -5.  Simmons had a DRS of 18 (cuz he was hurt)

In 2017 our LFers had a DRS of -12.  Simmons had a DRS of 32.  

That's hilarious. It's like he is so good, he is breaking the advanced stats we use. Almost like how Ohtani is projected to force people to re-think WAR a bit.

[UndertheHalo]

We all know Simmons is a wizard defensively.  What he and the Angels need is for his bat to maintain/continue to develop.  This is his path to being an elite player and it should be the biggest thing to watch for in his game.  Simmons can’t be an elite player if his presence with the bat is negligible.  I’ve got faith in him.  Last year he was so close to being an .800 OPS player and I was a bit disappointed it got away from him in September.  I hope he can do it this year.  If he does, this line up is going to be something. 

Didnt mean to get the conversation away from great defense.  

Edited January 4, 2018 by UndertheHalo

[WeatherWonk]

How can they figure defensive runs saved on games where no video exists? Certainly not all balls have been "vectored" throughout the careers of Vizquel and Ozzie, have they? I assume this is a rather recent analysis.

I hope I am right, in my reading of the above links, that they are measuring things like the angle, altitude and the velocity of batted balls, with respect to the positioning of the player.