Jason Kipnis

[Cdaniel]

What would a trade for him look like?  When his name first started getting thrown around I was a hard no but now im warming up to the idea.

Signed to a 6yr 52.5 million contract so his AAV is 8.75 mil.  He is expensive in 2018 $13,666,667, 2019 $14,666,667, team option in 2020 $16,500,00 with a $2.5M Buyout. 

Do you think the Indians throw in some money to help with the back loaded contract?  What are your thoughts?

[totdprods]

I can see them holding off until Santana makes a decision, he could help fill some of the void should they lose him to FA. 

I can't help but imagine everyone is asking Eppler about Barria and Jones at this point in most trade talks. They see what we see too - a glut of depthy SPs and an OF under contract for 3+ years, so I'm sure they're trying to be opportunistic and grab some of our better prospects while it's early.

Cleveland is taking a bit of a hit in the pen, they may nibble on some pen guys in a Kipnis package. 

[tdawg87]

Can't imagine he'd cost a whole lot considering how much he is owed the next two years as well as how poor his injury-filled 2017 campaign was. He's actually an intriguing option as long as the cost is low. Maybe Cron and Jake Jewell? I'm thinking the Indians might want a MLB-ready 1st baseman, unless they plan on having Encarnacion play there all year. 

[totdprods]

12 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Can't imagine he'd cost a whole lot considering how much he is owed the next two years as well as how poor his injury-filled 2017 campaign was. He's actually an intriguing option as long as the cost is low. Maybe Cron and Jake Jewell? I'm thinking the Indians might want a MLB-ready 1st baseman, unless they plan on having Encarnacion play there all year. 

If Santana walks I could see Cron having a bit of value to them as a stopgap until Bradley arrives. 

[Cdaniel]

If we can include Cron in a package for Kipnis thats a win win for everyone.  I wouldn't want to give up anyone of value like Barria or Jones

[arch stanton]

I can't imagine he's available until the Indians know what's up with Santana

[laagamer]

He'd be an interesting solution. The buyout option is super nice.

[ettin]

The Indians are one of our better potential trading partners this off-season.

Cody Allen is in his last year of control so they are interested in finding a new guy to close (Bedrosian or Middleton).

They need a 1B too so Cron could maybe be of interest to them.

Also they would probably love prospects from us to replenish their farm system.

They have several interesting pieces that we would love to have including an untouchable like Jose Ramirez and more touchable assets like Danny Salazar, Jason Kipnis, Yandy Diaz (my personal favorite), Cody Allen, and some interesting prospects like Francisco Mejia (probably off-limits too) and Greg Allen among others.

For instance I could see a trade of either Kipnis (3 years left) and Allen (1 year left) for Cron (3 years left) and Bedrosian (4 years left). Or perhaps Yandy Diaz and Allen instead.

The Indians are looking to shed some payroll (mostly so they can make some other moves I imagine). That is why Kipnis and/or Allen are potentially in play because both are owed quite a bit of money.

[Hubs]

54 minutes ago, ettin said:

The Indians are one of our better potential trading partners this off-season.

Cody Allen is in his last year of control so they are interested in finding a new guy to close (Bedrosian or Middleton).

They need a 1B too so Cron could maybe be of interest to them.

Also they would probably love prospects from us to replenish their farm system.

They have several interesting pieces that we would love to have including an untouchable like Jose Ramirez and more touchable assets like Danny Salazar, Jason Kipnis, Yandy Diaz (my personal favorite), Cody Allen, and some interesting prospects like Francisco Mejia (probably off-limits too) and Greg Allen among others.

For instance I could see a trade of either Kipnis (3 years left) and Allen (1 year left) for Cron (3 years left) and Bedrosian (4 years left). Or perhaps Yandy Diaz and Allen instead.

The Indians are looking to shed some payroll (mostly so they can make some other moves I imagine). That is why Kipnis and/or Allen are potentially in play because both are owed quite a bit of money.

If they want to bring back Santana, they'll have to make the payroll adjustment. Kipnis is the easiest way to do this, but he's a clubhouse favorite. He is not going to bring a huge return, but...salary relief is key.

[AngelArcher]

Doesn't a player's  AAV salary reset to the remainder of the contract once he's traded?

 

[Cdaniel]

Just now, AngelArcher said:

Doesn't a player's  AAV salary reset to the remainder of the contract once he's traded?

 

Fletcher thought it did on a previous post but it was determined that it doesnt.  I'm 99% sure Ettin confirmed this.

[Hubs]

5 minutes ago, Hubs said:

If they want to bring back Santana, they'll have to make the payroll adjustment. Kipnis is the easiest way to do this, but he's a clubhouse favorite. He is not going to bring a huge return, but...salary relief is key.

Remember, the Angels don't typically have problems with cash, they can usually pay for whatever they want. Some teams aren't as lucky.

[ettin]

14 minutes ago, AngelArcher said:

Doesn't a player's  AAV salary reset to the remainder of the contract once he's traded?

 

 

13 minutes ago, Cdaniel said:

Fletcher thought it did on a previous post but it was determined that it doesnt.  I'm 99% sure Ettin confirmed this.

Yeah originally in a different thread Fletcher and I were talking about this but as it turns out it does not reset it is transferred over. If there is cash sent in the deal it impacts not only actual but how much AAV too but on some type of proportional basis that we couldn't figure out (it's not super clear in the CBA). Without examples it's hard to pinpoint.

A simple example as I see it: A player signs a 4 year, $60M contract. That is $15M per year in AAV but the contract pays $10M in year 1, $13M in year 2, $17M in year 3, and $20M in year 4.

After the 2nd year the player is traded to another team and the original club sends $8M in salary relief spread evenly ($4M each) over years 3 and 4.

Because AAV is calculated as the original total contract divided by the number of guaranteed years ($60M/4 years = $15M), in order to calculate how much AAV the original club keeps and how much the new team takes on would require that the $8M be divided by the original number of guaranteed years ($8M/4 years = $2M/year in AAV). So basically the original team will have $2M in AAV on their books for the next two years even though the player is now off of their roster is how I see it. This is why teams don't send cash as often because they like keeping their ledgers clean.

So basically the acquiring team will only pay $13M and $16M in actual club payroll for years 3 and 4 while in terms of AAV they will only be at $13M in both of those years for purposes of the Luxury Tax. The original team would carry $2M in AAV on their books for years 3 and 4. Note that this (AAV) would still be true even if they had applied all of the $8M to only year 3 or only year 4 for example (i.e. the money could have been split up any way the two clubs chose to do it but the AAV would still be the same because it is calculated as an average).

Remember that this is my interpretation. I could be wrong but it makes sense to me.

Edited December 12, 2017 by ettin

[Dtwncbad]

Indians want outfield help.

What about a simple Kipnis for Calhoun swap straight up?

Then sign Jay Bruce.

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Indians want outfield help.

What about a simple Kipnis for Calhoun swap straight up?

Then sign Jay Bruce.

I'd do that trade, but instead of Bruce I'd go after Yelich really hard. Could do anything at 3rd then.

Kipnis 2B, Yelich RF, Trout CF, Upton LF, Pujols 1B, Simmons SS, whomever 3B, Ohtani DH, Maldonado C

Yelich's contract is team friendly enough you could still sign Moose or Frazier for 3B

[Tyler]

Please no.

[Troll Daddy]

5 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'd do that trade, but instead of Bruce I'd go after Yelich really hard. Could do anything at 3rd then.

Kipnis 2B, Yelich RF, Trout CF, Upton LF, Pujols 1B, Simmons SS, whomever 3B, Ohtani DH, Maldonado C

Yelich's contract is team friendly enough you could still sign Moose or Frazier for 3B

I’m guessing Jeter is a big Yelich fan ... is there any indication from the Marlins FO that he’s available? 

[totdprods]

Just now, Troll Daddy said:

I’m guessing Jeter is a big Yelich fan ... is there any indication from the Marlins FO that he’s available? 

Nothing firmly indicating that he is, but nothing indicating he isn't either. Lots of writer speculation. There's been murmurs that he's a little unhappy as well, and in my opinion, his high value could be a handy vehicle in shedding Prado or Tazawa contracts. 

I think at this point the Marlins would be crazy not to consider offers for anyone. Yelich would undoubtedly cost a painful package but the guy would be like acquiring Simmons all over again - a price well worth it for a young, affordable productive player on the verge of becoming a star. If we are going to trade prospects, this is the type of player Eppler should target.

[krAbs]

8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'd do that trade, but instead of Bruce I'd go after Yelich really hard. Could do anything at 3rd then.

Kipnis 2B, Yelich RF, Trout CF, Upton LF, Pujols 1B, Simmons SS, whomever 3B, Ohtani DH, Maldonado C

Yelich's contract is team friendly enough you could still sign Moose or Frazier for 3B

I like this a lot actually (especially with the 3b options), but I worry about the lack of flexibility in the infield. We are going to have a pitcher-heavy 25 man roster, it would be REALLY nice to have a couple starting IF players who can move around.

[totdprods]

Just now, krAbs said:

I like this a lot actually (especially with the 3b options), but I worry about the lack of flexibility in the infield. We are going to have a pitcher-heavy 25 man roster, it would be REALLY nice to have a couple starting IF players who can move around.

I'd just nab any old cheap UT IF at that point. No one fancy. Save any leftover money, if any, for pen help.

[ettin]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Nothing firmly indicating that he is, but nothing indicating he isn't either. Lots of writer speculation. There's been murmurs that he's a little unhappy as well, and in my opinion, his high value could be a handy vehicle in shedding Prado or Tazawa contracts. 

I think at this point the Marlins would be crazy not to consider offers for anyone. Yelich would undoubtedly cost a painful package but the guy would be like acquiring Simmons all over again - a price well worth it for a young, affordable productive player on the verge of becoming a star. If we are going to trade prospects, this is the type of player Eppler should target.

Anyone would be crazy not to want Yelich tots but his surplus value is double what Stanton was worth easy. He is that one guy I just don't think we can get to be honest. I could be wrong.

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, ettin said:

Anyone would be crazy not to want Yelich tots but his surplus value is double what Stanton was worth easy. He is that one guy I just don't think we can get to be honest. I could be wrong.

I'd approach it similarly to the Simmons deal - he obviously wasn't at the same value as Yelich is now, but no one thought we'd have the farm to pull that off. I would pay a pretty steep price, and I'd be willing to eat some Tazawa/Ziegler/Prado/Chen/Volquez money to help. 

Strike hard and fast. Make an offer they can't refuse and nab him before any more market develops as teams get more desperate and the Marlins get stingier.

[Blarg]

We don't need a right fielder. Yelich is not a target.

[Stradling]

Just now, Blarg said:

We don't need a right fielder. Yelich is not a target.

Or you can look to upgrade and trade Kole.  We do need a lead off hitter.  He’s young, he has a few years left on a reasonable deal.  

[Second Base]

I'm thinking Kipnis salary, poor performance and Cleveland's ability to replace him and potential need to open up salary for other moves will knock his price down further than most realize.

Chase Headley cost only Jabari Blash. Kipnis...I'm guessing costs us something the Indians need and we can afford, a future stud reliever like Jake Jewell. We'd probably need to send one more decent prospect on the farm to round it out like Cole Duensing.

That's it in my opinion.