What everyone is thinking?

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

The frustrating part is its the same shit...2B, LF, and pitching.

What do we do next year? If Upton opts out, do we bring him back? Pujols is DONE. You're better off trying to snag a 1B through trade or FA; eating the deadweight with Pujols' contract and having him ride the pine with Cron at the DH. 

People can be pissed @ Trout for falling off the cliff lately but you can't expect him to carry you all season long and then not hit a wall. We need protection around him and that starts with Upton. 

Pitching is the other thing that we need to figure out. I've got confidence in a healthy Richards...I just don't have confidence in seeing Richards healthy. Skaggs, IMO, is still very unproven and we don't know what we've really got with him. Heaney...same thing...

[tennischmp]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

The entire front office, the entire minor league system, the entire scouting department and the roster has almost completely turned over.

From Dipoto's exit there is exactly four position players on the roster, Pujols, Trout, Calhoun and Cron. From the starting pitching staff there is Richards, Shoemaker, Skaggs and Heaney. No survivors remain in the bullpen.

That is a rebuild. It's like a damn five story office going up in your back yard and you never even noticed. 

So the slightly below average players are no longer here and they are were exchanged with different, a little better average players and you call it a rebuild? A rebuild is when everyone but Trout is traded for prospects and those prospects are given a chance to develop. You mentioned the Astros, well that what they did. The Angels need some top 10 picks if they are really going to rebuild. 

[Angel Oracle]

A good scouting team can find those great picks in the 11-20 slots too.   Even Trout was a #25 overall pick.   Heck, the real Pujols was selected in a round with 2 digits.   Double heck, Piazza was in the 62nd round, and those don't even exist anymore.

One of the big changes recently was an overhaul of the scouting, and of course a return to having an impact in Latin America.

Those are soooo important to long term success.

Just need to sign Moose for 3B, and hope that Cron and Valbuena can get through another season, before Thaiss hopefully takes over at 1B.

That still leaves the Upton opt out question, and 2B.

[Ohtaniland]

47 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

A good scouting team can find those great picks in the 11-20 slots too.   Even Trout was a #25 overall pick.   Heck, the real Pujols was selected in a round with 2 digits.   Double heck, Piazza was in the 62nd round, and those don't even exist anymore.

One of the big changes recently was an overhaul of the scouting, and of course a return to having an impact in Latin America.

Those are soooo important to long term success.

Just need to sign Moose for 3B, and hope that Cron and Valbuena can get through another season, before Thaiss hopefully takes over at 1B.

That still leaves the Upton opt out question, and 2B.

I will say this. The last time Justin Upton was a free agent he had a difficult time finding a taker. He was without a team until 3 weeks before spring training. The Tigers overpaid him for some crazy reason but then found a taker in the Angels. He's not opting out of the current lucrative deal that he already has. No way!

[fan_since79]

8 hours ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

Sosh will try to trot out Pujols every night but he'll end up limping and hobbling out.

...and he'll be in the cleanup spot with a sub-.700 OPS and dizzying GIDP rate, while Scioscia will be the proud owner of a contract extension. Night after night.

That's the really distressing possibility.

Edited September 23, 2017 by fan_since79

[eligrba]

Eppler has some work to do.  I hope he does not go desperate this off season.  I hope he addresses as many needs as he can and is able to solve the most obvious ones.  I hope he abandons the "let's try this" approach to roster building.

[WeatherWonk]

46 minutes ago, Calzone said:

I will say this. The last time Justin Upton was a free agent he had a difficult time finding a taker. He was without a team until 3 weeks before spring training. The Tigers overpaid him for some crazy reason but then found a taker in the Angels. He's not opting out of the current lucrative deal that he already has. No way!

I have to agree with this. He probably only got signed because Illitch was still alive, and desperate for a WS title. I dont think he's going anywhere.

And I dont know if I am happy about that. 22.125 million for a lifetime .270 hitter seems like a lot. He hasnt hit well in any of the AL West stadiums. About career average in Anaheim, though a higher OPS than his career, so that's a plus.

[ksangel]

Was a fun season to watch until September...was a scrappy team up to that point that always found a way to stay in the game even without top of the rotation pitchers.  I think they blew up what ever chemistry there was getting Upton and Phillips...the offense just died after that. That's not a criticism but an observation from watching every game...they quit putting any pressure on the opposing team by not getting on base and subsequently not stealing bases..seemed to be swinging for the HR which is not what they did before September.  And it didn't help they faced Houston six times and Cleveland three times...they just don't match up to those two teams.

The Angels need hitters who take walks - work the count - get singles and doubles and can run the bases...Valbuena, Pujols and Maldonado are dead weight to the offense though I understand keeping Maldonado for what he brings behind the plate.

Need to get younger and more athletic too so not an advocate of picking up an old 2B like Kinsler  just to fill the hole...this may mean trading one of Heaney or Skaggs ...and then signing a middle of the rotation starter to replace who is traded...I know many on this board don't buy into that but what other way is there to get a good, young 2B but by trading a major league pitcher because the upper minor league players aren't that enticing to other teams.  Don't advocate trading Jones, Marsh, Adell or other quality minor leaguers either to get a 2B.

Though I will have to say 2016 was better because they got Jo Adell and Canning out of stinking up the place...just like San Fran will get the #1 pick this year for having a down year and how Houston stocked their system, and are now reaping the benefits, by having continuous losing seasons.

But to me the off season revolves around keeping Upton, getting a young 2B who can hit lead off and is already established, not a project, and all the pitchers getting/staying healthy.

 

[WeatherWonk]

3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

A good scouting team can find those great picks in the 11-20 slots too.   Even Trout was a #25 overall pick.   Heck, the real Pujols was selected in a round with 2 digits.   Double heck, Piazza was in the 62nd round, and those don't even exist anymore.

One of the big changes recently was an overhaul of the scouting, and of course a return to having an impact in Latin America.

Those are soooo important to long term success.

Just need to sign Moose for 3B, and hope that Cron and Valbuena can get through another season, before Thaiss hopefully takes over at 1B.

That still leaves the Upton opt out question, and 2B.

Surely, you're not hoping that Valbuena can play second. I cant see it. And he has a low OBP, which we also need from that position. 

If Moose is signed, Valbuena becomes an expensive LH bat off the bench. Trade his salary and use it elsewhere. He wont cut it as a utility player because I doubt he can do a serviceable job at SS or 2nd.

I  say, keep Valbuena and use him at third next year. I think he will hit HRs about the same and will hit around .250, if he is given regular playing time. 

We could trade Cron and sign Carlos Santana. No, not the guitarist. The Indian. He wont be very expensive.

I'd love to see Lowrie at 2nd. Another reasonably cheap FA. The guy plays hard all the time. Big fan favorite, wherever he goes. Very versatile player. Switch hitter, meaning another LF bat in the lineup, which we desperately need. Not a base-stealer, though. Average speed. 

Or Eduardo Nunez, another versatile infielder who can get on base and steal a base.

Lowrie/Nunez, Trout, Santana, Upton, Calhoun, Pujols, Valbuena, Maldonado, Simmons. A nice, balanced lineup, especially with Lowrie.

Come on, Sosh, it's time to mitigate the disaster that is Pujols batting cleanup. Getting an extension beyond 2018 will depend on making the playoffs next year. That wont happen with Albert at cleanup.

[Stradling]

Frustrating season for sure.  It started being frustrating when we had the injuries to our starting pitching.  It continued to be frustrating when Kole, Espinosa and Valbuena underperformed.  Then it continued to be frustrating because of the Trout injury.  Then we got some encouragement because somehow some way we were still in it.  Then we trade for our two biggest holes and we were all optimistic.  Those players have actually performed since they've been here, and they aren't the problem.  This month has been frustrating because we stopped scoring runs.  We stopped coming from behind and winning.  And the best player in baseball has been mere mortal.  

All that being said, I believe in Eppler.  He hasn't traded any of our better prospects for rentals.  He has the ability to find a pitcher and make them serviceable if not down right good.  I look forward to seeing a full season of Upton hitting behind Trout next year.  Also as someone on here mentioned when the two trades happened, it shows a glimpse into what the financial commitment going forward looks like.  

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, WeatherWonk said:

Surely, you're not hoping that Valbuena can play second. I cant see it. And he has a low OBP, which we also need from that position. 

If Moose is signed, Valbuena becomes an expensive LH bat off the bench. Trade his salary and use it elsewhere. He wont cut it as a utility player because I doubt he can do a serviceable job at SS or 2nd.

I  say, keep Valbuena and use him at third next year. I think he will hit HRs about the same and will hit around .250, if he is given regular playing time. 

We could trade Cron and sign Carlos Santana. No, not the guitarist. The Indian. He wont be very expensive.

I'd love to see Lowrie at 2nd. Another reasonably cheap FA. The guy plays hard all the time. Big fan favorite, wherever he goes. Very versatile player. Switch hitter, meaning another LF bat in the lineup, which we desperately need. Not a base-stealer, though. Average speed. 

Or Eduardo Nunez, another versatile infielder who can get on base and steal a base.

Lowrie/Nunez, Trout, Santana, Upton, Calhoun, Pujols, Valbuena, Maldonado, Simmons. A nice, balanced lineup, especially with Lowrie.

Come on, Sosh, it's time to mitigate the disaster that is Pujols batting cleanup. Getting an extension beyond 2018 will depend on making the playoffs next year. That wont happen with Albert at cleanup.

This is a great post.  I love the idea of signing Santana to play 1st base and I love the idea of Lowrie at first.  I don't think either will be cheap, but them along with Upton would make for a really nice line up.  I still think we sign Moustakas, but if I had to choose between him at any dollar amount or Santana and Lowrie, I would choose filling the two holes instead of one.  

[Tank]

10 hours ago, Calzone said:

You're trying to sell us on snake oil. I think you're getting confused with the fact that we almost qualified for only the SECOND wild card. Is that the new goal? Is that where we now set the bar? Did you forget that there's some team sitting 18 games better than us in the AL West. I'm calling for big changes and it starts with the manager and tons of player moves. This team has turned into a limp d*ck offensively. 

Would you rather the halos not get into the playoffs at all? I'll take the second WC over sitting home any day.

and you're smart enough to know that they simply don't have the horses to challenge the Astros or the other top teams, especially not with this current roster - that's a front office problem, btw. We all know the bigger goal is to build a team that is elite for many years running.

but you again present such an unreasonable contradiction. You're upset that they aren't a better team but always bypass the plethora of injuries and the lack of adequate talent. They are not going anywhere when their starting pitching is in such flux and a rather pedestrian offense. And neither of those factors can be laid on the manager, something else you and others don't seem to get.

 

[Stradling]

20 minutes ago, Tank said:

Would you rather the halos not get into the playoffs at all? I'll take the second WC over sitting home any day.

and you're smart enough to know that they simply don't have the horses to challenge the Astros or the other top teams, especially not with this current roster - that's a front office problem, btw. We all know the bigger goal is to build a team that is elite for many years running.

but you again present such an unreasonable contradiction. You're upset that they aren't a better team but always bypass the plethora of injuries and the lack of adequate talent. They are not going anywhere when their starting pitching is in such flux and a rather pedestrian offense. And neither of those factors can be laid on the manager, something else you and others don't seem to get.

 

Yep

[GrittyVeterans]

The one thing that can be laid on the manager is having the worst player in baseball batting 3rd/4th all year and Cron batting 7th or 8th...that made little to no sense...I'll give Sosh a pass for the bullpen this year because we just flat out don't have any good arms other than like 2.5 guys

[2112]

4 more years!  

 

If they made Pujols a part time player next year - I would be happy.  Go back to the days that a hot reserve or a tired outfielder was the DH for the day.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, GrittyVeterans said:

The one thing that can be laid on the manager is having the worst player in baseball batting 3rd/4th all year...I'll give Sosh a pass for the bullpen this year because we just flat out don't have any good arms other than like 2.5 guys

Yea, I would agree with this.  

[WeatherWonk]

I never expected much from this year, so my disappointment is not great. And, clearly, I do root for other teams that appeal to me. I just wont root for certain teams to win it all. Mostly, its NYY and BOS. Cant root for the Texas teams, either. Wont root for the CHW. 

2018 always seemed like the first year we would be truly competitive, depending on what we did with the money freed up by the expiration of Hambone's contract. That still seems to be the case. 

Now, with all that said, we are NOT yet eliminated from the playoffs. We can beat Morton and McCullars and that kid, Boyd, is pitching for Detroit today. It's not like we are facing Kuechel and Verlander. So, it is not preposterous to think that we could win the next two games and Detroit could win the next two against the Twins. The Twins are not that good a club, really. If so, we are back in it and MIN still has to play CLE for three games. 

MUCH stranger things have happened...............this is not pie-in-the-sky thinking. i'm sure the Angel players havent given up yet.

[stormngt]

13 hours ago, Dochalo said:

Never thought we'd even have a chance this year so you feel like you shouldn't be as pissed as you are.  

But you can't overlook all the recent mistakes.  

I am having a tough time verbalizing my annoyance and frustration because my expectations were low.  

Yet I feel like this was the biggest tease we've had in the last 8 seasons.  Even compared to 2014.  

Everytime this team appears to be out of it they cone back and make interesting.   I am hoping there is a miracle in the wings

[stormngt]

12 hours ago, Calzone said:

We've had the best player in baseball for a number of years now, yet we just can't win one F'n playoff game. How difficult is it to win? I just watched our neighbors win their 5th straight NL West Division title. That's not supposed to happen with parity. 

Sorry guys but I'm pissed off at this organization. They just can't put it all together. 

Maybe we would have one a playoff game had the best player in baseball played just average baseball.

[stormngt]

12 hours ago, Blarg said:

That was game 2. It did not determine the outcome of the playoffs, the series was tied at 1 at that point. Chicago playing better than the Angels in the following three games is what determined the outcome and the Angels missing the World Series. 

The Angels committed 14 errors in that series. That is why the Angels lost the series, not dropping game 2.

 

Blarq i could be wrong but i think it was game two and we were up 1-0.  They swept us at home.

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, GrittyVeterans said:

The one thing that can be laid on the manager is having the worst player in baseball batting 3rd/4th all year and Cron batting 7th or 8th...that made little to no sense...I'll give Sosh a pass for the bullpen this year because we just flat out don't have any good arms other than like 2.5 guys

Yet the best player in baseball played better when the worst player in baseball hit behind him.

[Merlot]

I have no idea what you see in Thaiss to believe he will even be as "good" as Cron.

[Merlot]

I have no idea what you see in Thaiss to believe he will even be as "good" as Cron.

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, Merlot said:

I have no idea what you see in Thaiss to believe he will even be as "good" as Cron.

The fact that he hits a lot of doubles and takes a ton of walks.  

[Troll Daddy]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

The fact that he hits a lot of doubles and takes a ton of walks.  

You're alway pulling the cart before the horse ... I'm not saying it's a bad thing