How many games does a manager win per year

[mp170.6]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Exactly, these are the same people that at work blame thier bosses for their own shitty performance.  Either that or they really don't have any idea about the game of baseball.  These are people that can't tell the difference between a guy trying to bunt for a hit and a sacrifice bunt attempt.  Or the type of person that doesn't believe Trout has the green light to steal, so when he doesn't it is Albert's fault or Scioscia's fault.  

Since every manager -- even the best -- makes poor decisions and costs their team wins, to say a manager is responsible for 10+ wins is really saying they are responsible for 13-15 wins to offset the losses that were really their fault.  That's laughable on both counts. 

[Troll Daddy]

It's obvious that managers are a factor for a winning team. 

 

signed

S. Servais

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

I think just about anyone could get more consistent results out of these Angels right now.  The 1-11 record against Houston falls on Scioscia's shoulders IMHO.  The Angels alone are responsible for the Astros being above .500 this year. 

That's one of the things I hate most about Scioscia, the "one game at a time" and other assorted BS under-emphasizes the importance of dominating your division rivals.  Any chance of competing is all but lost when the Angels are sub .500 against the AL West. 

Well they suck so I don't really know how really how that falls on Mike, but ok.  Also one game at a time is exactly how you don't fall into slumps and how you play for entire seasons.  This team isn't losing 11 in a row because of a one game at a time philosophy.  They are losing 11 in a row because the pitching sucks, the bullpen sucks and we don't have sticks after the fourth batter to create a rally.  

[itsKnoppUitsme]

1 hour ago, Kevinb said:

That's the point. What do you think a manager actually brings to the table. How many wins can a manager get you himself a year. 

In our case, not as many as he loses!

 

[mp170.6]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Well they suck so I don't really know how really how that falls on Mike, but ok.  Also one game at a time is exactly how you don't fall into slumps and how you play for entire seasons.  This team isn't losing 11 in a row because of a one game at a time philosophy.  They are losing 11 in a row because the pitching sucks, the bullpen sucks and we don't have sticks after the fourth batter to create a rally.  

These Angels had a 0.457 winning percentage before the latest 11-game slide.  The pitching and bullpen doesn't suck that bad. 

11-game losing streaks are what you'd expect if the Angels were a high school team facing MLB. 

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

These Angels had a 0.457 winning percentage before the latest 11-game slide.  The pitching and bullpen doesn't suck that bad. 

11-game losing streaks are what you'd expect if the Angels were a high school team facing MLB. 

Sorry but you are out of your mind if you think the pitching "doesn't suck that bad".  Shoe hasn't dominated his last three starts like he had been.  Skaggs has had two rough outings in a row.  Nolasco had a decent last game.  Weaver throws 83 mph and Lincecum and Chacin are what they are.  Our closer right now is Salas.  If you don't see what I just described as being that bad then I think we can end this discussion now because we won't find any middle ground.  

[mp170.6]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Sorry but you are out of your mind if you think the pitching "doesn't suck that bad".  Shoe hasn't dominated his last three starts like he had been.  Skaggs has had two rough outings in a row.  Nolasco had a decent last game.  Weaver throws 83 mph and Lincecum and Chacin are what they are.  Our closer right now is Salas.  If you don't see what I just described as being that bad then I think we can end this discussion now because we won't find any middle ground.  

That only explains how the 11 game losing streak occurred and which players were largely responsible for it. 

Both good and bad teams go on extended win and lose streaks.  It's not a good indicator of talent. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, mp170.6 said:

That only explains how the 11 game losing streak occurred and which players were largely responsible for it. 

Both good and bad teams go on extended win and lose streaks.  It's not a good indicator of talent. 

No but this season is a great indicator of talent. 

[Ohtaniland]

We could've won just as many games without Scioscia. The 2002 championship could've been won without Scioscia ( he was just as shocked as we were )

Thats my answer. 

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

We could've won just as many games without Scioscia. The 2002 championship could've been won without Scioscia ( he was just as shocked as we were )

Thats my answer. 

Of course it is.  Like I said you're only happen when they suck or when you can complain.  Kinda sad.  Every board needs a troll, we just happen to have a Canadian troll.  

[kevinb]

5 hours ago, stormngt said:

How you objectively measure.  If a team wins how do we know if it's a manager or the playoffs.  A lot of managing can not be measured.

My question is how many games do u think a manager wins you a year. This isn't an exact science it's a question that we can never know the exact answer to. My only thought on it is I think football hockey even basketball coaches with schemes systems and plays help you win games. Where as I think baseball managers are more or less the same. Why I put managers probably win you 0-3 games a year. Your opinion can and probably will be different. Hence why I threw the question out there. Angels fans similar to every fan base blames the manager a lot. So I was curious what the fans on this site thought a baseball manager accounts for wins wise a year

[kevinb]

4 hours ago, mp170.6 said:

You may be asking the wrong question.  How many games do teams lose because of being mismanaged? 

I'd imagine it would be the same

[kevinb]

47 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Of course it is.  Like I said you're only happen when they suck or when you can complain.  Kinda sad.  Every board needs a troll, we just happen to have a Canadian troll.  

He's Canadian? 

[Troll Daddy]

There should be WAR for managers.

[stormngt]

23 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

My question is how many games do u think a manager wins you a year. This isn't an exact science it's a question that we can never know the exact answer to. My only thought on it is I think football hockey even basketball coaches with schemes systems and plays help you win games. Where as I think baseball managers are more or less the same. Why I put managers probably win you 0-3 games a year. Your opinion can and probably will be different. Hence why I threw the question out there. Angels fans similar to every fan base blames the manager a lot. So I was curious what the fans on this site thought a baseball manager accounts for wins wise a year

A closer goes into a slump and blows save after save.  He loses confidence.  Despite pressure from fans and media the manager stays with him.  The skipper helped him regain his confidence where as the closer finishes the year with 30 straight saves without giving up a hit.  His team wins multiple one run games.

Meanwhile a rookie 3b gets his first taste in the majorsummer.  His manager platoons him early in the season making sure the young players faces favorable matching in his first experience against major league pitchers.  The strategy pays off as the rookie catches fire and playing everyday he ends up batting 330 with 900OPS down the stretch.

 

Now multiple those scenarios two or three times.  And tell me....how many games does a good manager wins?

[kevinb]

6 hours ago, stormngt said:

A closer goes into a slump and blows save after save.  He loses confidence.  Despite pressure from fans and media the manager stays with him.  The skipper helped him regain his confidence where as the closer finishes the year with 30 straight saves without giving up a hit.  His team wins multiple one run games.

Meanwhile a rookie 3b gets his first taste in the majorsummer.  His manager platoons him early in the season making sure the young players faces favorable matching in his first experience against major league pitchers.  The strategy pays off as the rookie catches fire and playing everyday he ends up batting 330 with 900OPS down the stretch.

 

Now multiple those scenarios two or three times.  And tell me....how many games does a good manager wins?

Fuck dude. It's not this difficult. It's a question. Not an exact science. I'm not even asking war I'm asking what do YOU think a manager does a year 

[gurn67]

According to a Gene Mauch interview I remember hearing, the answer is 54, and Gene knew more about baseball than probably every person on here combined.

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Fuck dude. It's not this difficult. It's a question. Not an exact science. I'm not even asking war I'm asking what do YOU think a manager does a year 

Your an idiot!  What I am trying to tell you and what you can't seem to comprehend is that the majority what a manager does has little to do with strategic moves.  Thus, you can not objectively determine the amount of wins a manager can contribute.  Not everything is measurable in stats.  The examples I gave you is how a manager helps his team's win games.  You F'n think all he contributes is when to call a hit an run or something like that.  

[kevinb]

37 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Your an idiot!  What I am trying to tell you and what you can't seem to comprehend is that the majority what a manager does has little to do with strategic moves.  Thus, you can not objectively determine the amount of wins a manager can contribute.  Not everything is measurable in stats.  The examples I gave you is how a manager helps his team's win games.  You F'n think all he contributes is when to call a hit an run or something like that.  

Uhh then don't answer this ones not for you. 

[ukyah]

i remember reading something a few years back done by one of these websites like fangraphs or whatever on this very question and they came up with something like 2 or 3 games.

[Junkballer]

5 hours ago, gurn67 said:

According to a Gene Mauch interview I remember hearing, the answer is 54, and Gene knew more about baseball than probably every person on here combined.

Love Gene but I think, in general, small ball managers will tend to overestimate their impact, just as micro-managers tend to do.

 

[California Cajun]

Leo Durocher said managers affect the outcome of about six games a season.  The rest of it depends on the players.

[kevinb]

14 minutes ago, California Cajun said:

Leo Durocher said managers affect the outcome of about six games a season.  The rest of it depends on the players.

Who is Leo Durocher? 

[kevinb]

This is pretty awesome though. I would have never guessed that it would be this spread out over all 4 spots. I am curious to know of the people who think managers account for more than 10 wins how many more than 10 wins do they think managers account for. 

[California Cajun]

27 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Who is Leo Durocher? 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Durocher