Another trade deadline leaving me scratching my head...

[floplag]

Another trade deadline leaving me scratching my head wondering how any of this helped the club in any way shape or form.
We downgraded the ML club for kids and what, possible salary relief? 

I've stayed away most of the season cause I've just had nothing good to say, and this only cements my view that this club is looking at a long window of irrelevance if this is the best we could do with what we had to offer.

I'm sorry but all this is not worth one good player no matter how good that player is.  I got told all pre-season how it was OK cause at least we could watch the best player in the game, well you know what, it hasnt been for me. 

[fan_since79]

I just hope we're not going to be like the Pirates were when they finished under .500 for twenty straight years.

This organization needs a major restructuring, starting with the owner and going from there.

 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

That would be fun. 20 straight seasons under .500.   Sosh will still be throw in out the same one-liners in 2036. 

[Jeff Williams]

The Twins have got to be flipping Santiago to a contender for such a deal to take place, unreported as of now.  It makes no sense to make it otherwise for both clubs, unless the Twins and Angels GM's are naïve with card misplay?   

[mulwin444]

"...naïve of card misplay"

I've said this often

[ettin]

I'm fine with the trade. The Angels need quality over quantity in terms of prospects and they couldn't afford to move Santiago without receiving another starter in return. Essentially they traded Santiago for one definite (Nolasco) and one potential starter in Meyer. I explain my thoughts further in the trade analysis article coming out shortly once Chuck can get it up (not that!). As far as the trade goes I''m fine with it.

In regards to our ability to compete in 2017 I'll wait and see what happens in the offseason but the Angels have one less starter to find next year by including Meyer in the deal.

[Jason]

15 minutes ago, Jeff Williams said:

The Twins have got to be flipping Santiago to a contender for such a deal to take place, unreported as of now.  It makes no sense to make it otherwise for both clubs, unless the Twins and Angels GM's are naïve of card misplay?   

These 2 franchises do suck for a reason

[tomsred]

12 minutes ago, ettin said:

I'm fine with the trade. The Angels need quality over quantity in terms of prospects and they couldn't afford to move Santiago without receiving another starter in return. Essentially they traded Santiago for one definite (Nolasco) and one potential starter in Meyer. I explain my thoughts further in the trade analysis article coming out shortly once Chuck can get it up (not that!). As far as the trade goes I''m fine with it.

In regards to our ability to compete in 2017 I'll wait and see what happens in the offseason but the Angels have one less starter to find next year by including Meyer in the deal.

Yeah, I view it as a fair trade as well.  We needed some salary relief - check.  We need to somewhat take a gamble on young pitchers - check.  We got two pitchers from Minnesota for one in Santiago when we are shy on quantity because of injuries - check.  Smith is going to be a free agent and we no longer need him this year, and he will probably get overpaid in 2017, dump him - check.  I don't know much about the Twins needs, but Santiago should help then a little - check.  The Cubs needed an experienced back end receiver this year for a playoff run - check.  It all sounds fine to me.

No one really gets fleeced in trades anymore, too much is known about the players.  It all comes down to what your short and long term needs are, and how much you want to risk.  Sometimes things work out, and sometimes they don't, those are future circumstances without much control.  

[jsnpritchett]

21 minutes ago, tomsred said:

Yeah, I view it as a fair trade as well.  We needed some salary relief - check.  We need to somewhat take a gamble on young pitchers - check.  We got two pitchers from Minnesota for one in Santiago when we are shy on quantity because of injuries - check.  Smith is going to be a free agent and we no longer need him this year, and he will probably get overpaid in 2017, dump him - check.  I don't know much about the Twins needs, but Santiago should help then a little - check.  The Cubs needed an experienced back end receiver this year for a playoff run - check.  It all sounds fine to me.

No one really gets fleeced in trades anymore, too much is known about the players.  It all comes down to what your short and long term needs are, and how much you want to risk.  Sometimes things work out, and sometimes they don't, those are future circumstances without much control.  

There's no salary relief.  It's just a wash (Angels pay Santiago's salary for this year, Twins pay Nolasco's, and then they send $4M to us next year to roughly balance out the difference in their anticipated salaries).

[Jeff Williams]

1 hour ago, Angels N Skins said:

These 2 franchises do suck for a reason

...As 2 bottom-feeders trading off each other at the deadline; when is the last time we have seen that?!   

Edited August 2, 2016 by Jeff Williams
linking off the quote instead.

[tomsred]

47 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

There's no salary relief.  It's just a wash (Angels pay Santiago's salary for this year, Twins pay Nolasco's, and then they send $4M to us next year to roughly balance out the difference in their anticipated salaries).

You're right, I guess we do save a dab on the Smith deal though.  It's interesting to note that in one of the official team releases it says that the team is still over the luxury limit, but expects to correct that by year end.  So there must be some other future move(s) being contemplated.

[ettin]

13 minutes ago, tomsred said:

You're right, I guess we do save a dab on the Smith deal though.  It's interesting to note that in one of the official team releases it says that the team is still over the luxury limit, but expects to correct that by year end.  So there must be some other future move(s) being contemplated.

I'm sure they will try to move the other rentals on September waivers even if it means giving them away for cash considerations. Soto is a definite candidate there.

[JarsOfClay]

1 hour ago, tomsred said:

No one really gets fleeced in trades anymore, too much is known about the players.  

This part was a riot coming from an angel fan.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

4 hours ago, tomsred said:

No one really gets fleeced in trades anymore, too much is known about the players. 

I seem to remember a deal that Tony Reagins made with the Blue Jays a while back, that Stevie Wonder could have seen was a bad idea.

[disarcina]

are the Twins paying part of Nolasco's salary? If they aren't - there's no salary relief here -- in fact, the payroll probably went up a bit for 2017 and Nolasco is signed, I think, through 2018.

meanwhile Santiago is signed through 2017 and if he keeps pitching the way he has, it's a bargain rate contract.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have moved Santiago -- but geez, I thought we could have gotten more or at least a prospect.

this tells me Angels are looking to contend in 2019 perhaps '18. Nolasco either as a fifth starter in '18 or flipped to another team in 2017 deadline deal.

[disarcina]

well, at least the Angels made some moves at deadline time -- we were all after them to do that.

Smith trade actually sounds OK -- we needed to move him and get something in return. Perhaps this Castillo arm will pan out for us. Better than getting nothing for Smith if he walked -- which he would have -- at season's end.

[Jeff Williams]

The Braves and Padres are, to answer my own question, WITH THIS DEADLINE;  How soon I forgot!

[tomsred]

35 minutes ago, disarcina said:

are the Twins paying part of Nolasco's salary? If they aren't - there's no salary relief here -- in fact, the payroll probably went up a bit for 2017 and Nolasco is signed, I think, through 2018.

meanwhile Santiago is signed through 2017 and if he keeps pitching the way he has, it's a bargain rate contract.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have moved Santiago -- but geez, I thought we could have gotten more or at least a prospect.

this tells me Angels are looking to contend in 2019 perhaps '18. Nolasco either as a fifth starter in '18 or flipped to another team in 2017 deadline deal.

Anyone we are willing to trade has flaws, big ones.  Yet so many people think we should always "get more".  If you want to truly get more, then trade someone you really want to keep, like Bedrosian, Trout, Calhoun, Shoemaker, or Skaggs.  You are not likely to make quantum leaps forward making trades, most trades are of equal value.  Yes, you can fill a position(s) of need, but when you give up something to do it, you weaken that position(s).  We are so thin at so many spots it means that we actually weaken the club by subtraction, and just get it strengthened in some other spot.  Players gathered through the draft and development are the most cost effective way of actually improving the team;  if you have the money you can actually improve through free agency.  We don't have a strong farm, and we don't have the extra cash at the moment.  That pretty much sums it up. 

[Oz27]

12 hours ago, tomsred said:

No one really gets fleeced in trades anymore, too much is known about the players. 

Pretty sure the Vernon Wells thing happened. Either that or I've been having some crazy nightmares.

[floplag]

Whether the trade is fair or balanced or whatever isn't the point, is the club better today than it was yesterday?  The answer is obviously not at least not for this year or likely next.   
so whats the point?  Stocking the farm?  Rebuild step one?  
The organization continues to not have a plan.  If this was the beginning of a rebuild they traded the wrong guys.  And it certainly cant be an effort to win cause we got worse in the process so WTF is it? 
No vision, no plan, no nothing aside from get away from the luxury tax... and pray that watching Trout is enough to break 3 mil in attendance.   Great plan, ill pass. 

[disarcina]

upon further review of the Halos deals at deadline time, reading this morning's LA TIMES, the deals are OK. The Twins did pick up the difference in salary between Nolasco and Santiago.  I thought the Smith trade was fine from the get go - we had to move Smith and got something in return - which is fine -- but we also shed his 2016 contract for the remaining two months which places the Halos under the luxury tax thresh-hold.....

Much depends on whether the once top prospect, Alex Meyer, can be a successful rehabilitation project after some DL time and injuries.

But even if Meyer does not pan out, really -- all he has to do is equal Santiago's performance during Santiago's time in Anaheim,

[disarcina]

as for getting more for Santiago -- you know -- it's that deadline dance -- teams know Halos NEED TO MOVE Santiago - so they sit back and wait -- apparently none of the contenders felt Santiago so he gets dealt to the Twins who figure he's a bargain for 2017 even if they pick up two months of Nolasco's contract..........once the contenders opted out of the Santiago sweepstakes -- Halos probably needed to scramble to find a trading partner -- although Santiago signed through 2017 is a pretty attractive contract for a serviceable fifth starter who's probably had a career year in 2016 -- for a team needing to fill a back of the rotation spot without much to spend in the payroll budget.

And, remember, this year's F/A starting pitching field looks fairly weak -- hard to tell what that means now -- either teams get desperate and over-pay for second rate rotation guys OR -- some F/A will be sitting out ST and perhaps the first month of the season until they finally understand they have to lower their economic expectations and sign for less........for some of these guys - the Nolan Ryan/ Roger Clemens option is a pretty good fall back --- I call it that because remember when Ryan, at the end of his career, signed with Houston and cut a deal where he didn't travel with the team, pitched mainly at home and when he pitched away games, flew in, started, flew home.  And Clemens, among his 'other issues' not known at the time -- but he cut a deal, also with Houston, I think, where he sat out two three months and then pitched the second half of the season making as much or more (for the whole year) as some of the other starters.......nice work if you can get it -- skip ST take an extra month off and still make a season's worth of dough...........

[Troll Daddy]

Instead of scratching your head ... try scratching your balls.

Ballsy trade 

[ettin]

I truly feel that this was a targeted move by Eppler.

Nolasco's contract specifically fits in as an insurance policy if one or more of Richards, Heaney, or Tropeano do not return healthy to the rotation to start 2018. Ricky's contract has a $1MM buyout for the 2018 season and he is unlikely to pitch the additional 275 innings between now and the end of next season that will turn the 2018 team option into a player option.

The Twins were targeted for two primary reasons: 1 ) As Fletcher indicated the Angels clearly were targeting Meyer as they have gathered information that led them to believe he was a high value target in a depressed buy low situation and 2 ) the Twins had a back of the rotation starter with the right contract set up, as stated above, that fits in with what the Angels need for the return of three starters in 2018 and still gives them SOMEONE to fill the rotation.

I know Jeff indicated that he was told the Angels were forced to take Nolasco in the deal but everything points to a deliberate targeting of the Twins. Eppler's original educational background is in Finance and he has a reputation for finding reclamation players so to me there was clear intent.

[John Stellman]

On 8/1/2016 at 3:18 PM, floplag said:

Another trade deadline leaving me scratching my head wondering how any of this helped the club in any way shape or form.
We downgraded the ML club for kids and what, possible salary relief? 

I've stayed away most of the season cause I've just had nothing good to say, and this only cements my view that this club is looking at a long window of irrelevance if this is the best we could do with what we had to offer.

I'm sorry but all this is not worth one good player no matter how good that player is.  I got told all pre-season how it was OK cause at least we could watch the best player in the game, well you know what, it hasnt been for me. 

Arte doesn't care. His Angels will still draw 3 million PLUS!