Are you on team sell or team compete and pray?

[zenmaster]

If we signed Heyward and no one got hurt we might be in contention for a Wild Card spot. The bullpen is a domino effect. And they all suck. But maybe if one sucked less they'd all follow suit?

[Troll Daddy]

Is it kosher to sign a 20 year 3 billion dollar contract that pays $150M a season  and do a complete rebuild? 

[Angel Oracle]

Heyward has been just about a batting flop so far.    But luckily for the Cubs, they have plenty of other offense.    They are benefitting from his D.

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

If he goes under the knife it isn't the craziest idea, but only way I see it being worth the savings is if we're shelling out bucks for another player - ideally a pitcher - and I don't really see that happening via FA.

Unless he is a free agent before he gets back in don't see how it isn't crazy.  Starting pitching is under short supply.  Won't we need him in 2018?

[beatlesrule]

Since Arte doesn't want to spend money, isn't the only logical way to trade away older vets for younger talent in order to get better?

[Docwaukee]

5 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Is it kosher to sign a 20 year 3 billion dollar contract that pays $150M a season  and do a complete rebuild? 

I don't know.  Is it kosher to sit on your yacht and tell the fans that there is no more money because you spent it foolishly?

[VariousCrap]

If you follow Jeff Fletcher at all on Twitter, you will know he has called out people who have tweeted him about the Angels being so bad that they should have a "fire sale" and attempt to get back as many prospects as possible by the trade deadline.

Jeff has repeatedly said that the reality of it is, the Angels don't have much to trade that will obtain more than a decent level prospect in return (except for Calhoun who isn't going anywhere).

That is the reality right now.  You fans expecting some great prospects in return for what the Angels have to trade will be deeply disappointed.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Angels trade Street, Smith, Escobar and guys like that, but don't expect much in return.

As for the decent pitching the Angels have (Shoe, Hector, Trop), in my opinion, you keep all of that.  They are cheap, club controlled and need to stay.  You don't trade decent starting pitching for a return that won't make that much of difference.  The Angels have learned this year that you can never have too much starting pitching.

This team is stuck in below .500 limbo until Hamilton is off the books.

[beatlesrule]

I never once stated that I expected amazing prospects but it's clearly time to let the younger guys play and try to at least attempt to make the farm a little better.  I know all Arte cares about is 3 million fans and he will still achieve that because he has Trout and if they push some of the younger guys, fans won't be upset. 

[VariousCrap]

There aren't that many older guys to let go of.

Street and Smith.  That is about it.

Nobody is trading for Weaver or Wilson.  You aren't getting anything for either of the LF platoon guys.

Lincecum might as well play the entire season here.  You ain't getting anything of value for him.  

The Angels could trade Escobar, but he isn't hurting anything by staying.  In fact, he is one of the teams best hitters.

[beatlesrule]

Trade the following players:

Al Alburquerque

Deolis Guerra

Tim Lincecum

Fernando Salas

Hector Santiago

Matt Shoemaker

Joe Smith

Huston Street

Geovany Soto

C.J. Cron

Yunel Escobar

Johnny Giavotella

Gregorio Petit

Kole Calhoun (as much as it would suck to see him go, he could fetch a good haul)

Daniel Nava

Shane Robinson

 

Now granted, some of those guys wouldn't get too much but Arte would decrease payroll by a good amount and it would allow a lot of the younger guys to play and make the farm better.  We would also be getting younger talent that could probably play in the majors right away. A MAJOR reconstruction is needed ASAP and there are teams that will trade for vets that we have even if it's for depth.  We need new blood and I'm hoping Eppler trades as many guys as he can.  Arte will love the money saved and fans will still come to the park to see the young guys play and Trout.

 

 

 

[California Cajun]

I voted no because you can't trade Garrett Richards and Heaney for much because of the uncertainty of their health.  If they can come back the team can compete.

What I'm sure the Angels are going to do is let players go other than Trout when they become free agents, and not sign any top tier free agents.

I also think they will emphasize player development. 

I'm beginning to think Arte will sell the team, and these things will help him do that.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I'm more keep some, sell some, and I will personally pack Nibs bags!

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

45 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Trade the following players:

Al Alburquerque

Deolis Guerra

Tim Lincecum

Fernando Salas

Hector Santiago

Matt Shoemaker

Joe Smith

Huston Street

Geovany Soto

C.J. Cron

Yunel Escobar

Johnny Giavotella

Gregorio Petit

Kole Calhoun (as much as it would suck to see him go, he could fetch a good haul)

Daniel Nava

Shane Robinson

 

Now granted, some of those guys wouldn't get too much but Arte would decrease payroll by a good amount and it would allow a lot of the younger guys to play and make the farm better.  We would also be getting younger talent that could probably play in the majors right away. A MAJOR reconstruction is needed ASAP and there are teams that will trade for vets that we have even if it's for depth.  We need new blood and I'm hoping Eppler trades as many guys as he can.  Arte will love the money saved and fans will still come to the park to see the young guys play and Trout.

 

 

 

I don't really understand how trading some of these guys would even give you more than a (never-will-be) in low level A ball or (one of those Giant 7 foot 9 pitchers who've never developed)...

 

I mean really? Robinson and Nava combined might get you 5- 8 cases of Fresca for Svens office soda machine!

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

1 hour ago, VariousCrap said:

There aren't that many older guys to let go of.

Street and Smith.  That is about it.

Nobody is trading for Weaver or Wilson.  You aren't getting anything for either of the LF platoon guys.

Lincecum might as well play the entire season here.  You ain't getting anything of value for him.  

The Angels could trade Escobar, but he isn't hurting anything by staying.  In fact, he is one of the teams best hitters.

He just can't play catch!

 

Too bad we can't have 5 DH's! We would be really good. Then!

[Troll Daddy]

This subject has been through the ringer around here. We all know that the FO has NO intention of rebuilding the team. Besides, there's no guarantee in a few years the team will be any better than what you have now. There's no quick fix on rebuilding the farm.

There's a lot of money coming off the books this year and next. The plan is to do a little retooling and compete for a playoff spot. 

I think many decisions are going to depend on the outcome of Richards and Heaney in the next few weeks. 

I suspect we'll see Escobar/Shoemaker/Santiago back next season and possibly Soto. Looks like we could trade some excess at the deadline. 

I know I'm not the only one looking forward to 2017. I still have some hope for 2016 but starting to fade fast. 

 

 

[John Stellman]

Is Arte for sale?

[disarcina]

gonna be a rough couple of years.......yeah, we've got a lot of salary tied up in either players we no longer have any say over (Hamilton) or those who just are not viable trade subjects (Weaver, CJ Wilson, Pujols) because of their anchor like contracts.......I do think Street has value, so does Smith, Calhoun has some value -- I wouldn't trade Simmons because he's slid defensively up the middle and we have him under club control -- as others have pointed out guys like Richards and Pennington are worth more to us than what we could get for them and they are bargains at their current contracts -- and may be the only thing (with Trout) allowing the Halos to at least field a competitive team the rest of this year and into 2017 and 2018...and when I say competitive -- I don't mean a contender -- I mean a team that compete at the MLB level.....that's about where we're at.

I see bleak years ahead -- good time to make a change in the manager's chair -- not because Scioscia needs to be fired but it's a rebuilding process of three years plus and Mike S. is probably not the guy to start anew OR just manager a team treading water for three years.......just time for a change -- but then the Angels may be hiring a guy like the Lakers hiring Byron Scott -- to preside over a mediocre team on the decline and then get blamed when the team performs exactly in that fashion...........

Should be a fairly high number of empty seats at the Big A starting about July 1.

[Docwaukee]

6 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

Trade the following players:

Al Alburquerque

Deolis Guerra

Tim Lincecum

Fernando Salas

Hector Santiago

Matt Shoemaker

Joe Smith

Huston Street

Geovany Soto

C.J. Cron

Yunel Escobar

Johnny Giavotella

Gregorio Petit

Kole Calhoun (as much as it would suck to see him go, he could fetch a good haul)

Daniel Nava

Shane Robinson

Chacin

Pennington 

Now granted, some of those guys wouldn't get too much but Arte would decrease payroll by a good amount and it would allow a lot of the younger guys to play and make the farm better.  We would also be getting younger talent that could probably play in the majors right away. A MAJOR reconstruction is needed ASAP and there are teams that will trade for vets that we have even if it's for depth.  We need new blood and I'm hoping Eppler trades as many guys as he can.  Arte will love the money saved and fans will still come to the park to see the young guys play and Trout.

 

 

 

The guys I crossed off have zero trade value.  None whatsoever.  If we released them they would clear waivers.  

The ones italicized have almost no trade value.  Probably none actually.  If we DFA'd them they'd probably get picked up but we aren't getting a damn thing in return.  

Lincecum might be able to accumulate a little bit of value as the season goes on, but at best he gets us a mid to low level prospect in the low minors or a Rasmus late bloomer type that would likely be subject to the rule 5 within a year.  

There isn't a contending team on the planet who would put Gia in at 2b and since he's limited defensively he has no value as a util.  

Soto might have a little value, but his injury sapped most of that away.  He would have to come back and show he's healthy and even still we are talking about a similar haul that you'd get for Timmy.  

Petit might give you similar value, but he's actually a super cheap option to keep around as a utility guy.  

Guerra might have a little value, but again, he's league min and controlled for awhile.  Keep him, see if he gets better, and then move him if need be.

Salas or Smith might get you a low level prospect.  Frankly, I think Smith is broken and isn't likely to regain form.  If he can before the deadline, then great, but I am not getting my hopes up.  

Pennington isn't worth much more than a salary dump if you can get someone to take him.  

So for those I mentioned above, you've got about 16mil in salary excess of league minimum.  You have to replace them on the 25man at league min so that is six guys at 500k, or 3 mil less.  Since it's prorated for half a season, you'd save about 6mil for 2016.  Only Penn, Nava, and Gia would have salaries above min.  The rest are min or impending FA.  So it would save you about 5mil for 2017 while netting yourself one, maybe 2 prospects that are more than just farm fodder.  

Santiago has a little value, but less than he could by the deadline.  You might get a mid level prospect and save 2.5mil for this year and 7mil for next year.  

Street's value is tanking like the stock market the day after Trump becomes president.  He looks pretty much done and is owed 10mil.  Plus, he only wants to close. If you are getting a team to take on that money and willing to let him close, then you aren't getting squat in return.  

Shoe is a conundrum.  Not sure what to do with him.  He's cheap and his value is improving with every start he makes.  He's arb eligible next year and might cost you about 2mil.  But he could be worth a lot more at the deadline next year.  I take the risk and keep him for now.  

Escobar probably gets you a solid prospect and since 2017 is probably burnt too, moving him seems like the right choice.  Plus you've actually got a couple of guys that might fill the spot.

I am not trading Cron right now.  He's cheap and has potential.  At worst, he's cheap and what he is now.  I feel like you'd be robbing peter to pay paul if you moved him.   

Calhoun is worth a nice bounty.  Probably at least two guys from someone's top 10.  But you've got him for three more years so there is no rush.  

So for now, I am keeping Shoe and Calhoun and dumping Santiago, Escobar and Street (if possible) saving about 10mil this year and about 18 mil for 2017.  

So overall, you could save about 15mil this year and about 23mil next year.  but about 10 of that 23mil for 2017 is Street and I am still not convinced someone else is gonna take that on.   

If you can roll into 2017 about 20mil lighter while losing Escobar, Santiago, and Street from your 25 man, you are better off but then you still have to pay to replace Santiago and Street so your net gain isn't as good, but at least you've picked up a few prospects.  

My plan for 2017 would be to pick up as many guys as possible on pillow contracts.  You aren't likely to contend so grabbing guys who could provide trade value at the deadline would be huge.  2b, LF, bullpen, and a couple of starters.  

[beatlesrule]

Nice post and the bottom line is it's better to trade those guys than hang onto them.  I still think there are teams that would want a veteran body instead of whatever they currently have and I would trade more guys that you would but we can both agree that Eppler needs to trade as many guys as he can. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

I feel like if wehad a fire sale, it would look like one of those yard sales with typewriters, VCR tapes and pile of bugle boy stonewashed jeans people dump on their driveway that nobody buys anything from and ends up mostly in the garbage can on trash day.

[zenmaster]

If we have a firesale then we'd have tons of young guys on the 40 man roster. Does this make our farm better or worse since our farm is now our 40 man?

[tdawg87]

If the Angels are to become true sellers, Simmons and Calhoun unfortunately have to go. They will bring the largest package of any non-injured regulars. Street will still bring a solid haul, regardless of his struggles since returning. 

[Torridd]

I think they should compete. I think we have a lot of talent on the team, but we need some "tweaking" for the hitting, major changing for the bullpen, and health for the starters. I just don't see the point in losing a bunch of games purposely even if we're doing it unintentionally now.

[Torridd]

Also, what is the point of trading Calhoun for those who suggested it?? Calhoun is probably one of our top five players.

[totdprods]

I am one of those who has voiced support for the idea of Calhoun, but I cannot stress enough that the only reason I would put him on the table would be if we were 1) receiving a significant package back that was an practivelly overpay, and 2) only under the premise that GRich and Heaney both have TJS and 3) we effectively write off 2017. 

I see Calhoun as our only real tradeable asset that will almost definitely bring back two legitimate, MLB-ready players, and his place in the OF should be a position that can be filled by FA dollars. I say that fully aware of what has happened the past two offseasons.

When I say significant package, I mean two or three players consisting of: 
-One young player who is succeeding in the bigs right now - i.e., Bauer, Matz, in order of our needs, a SP, OF, 2B, elite RP, LH 1B/DH.
-One top prospect - another SP or maybe a AA OFer who could contribute by mid '17 (a team getting Calhoun needs help now, can't wait for prospects to pan out)
-One A ball lotto pick prospect, maybe in return for someone off our scrap pile or a Kubitza-type prospect. 

And that's not all - it'd have to be if Richards and Heaney are both out with TJ,  and our '17 is effectively effed, meaning we are probably dealing a good bit from the Escobar, Santiago, Smith, Soto, Street, Salas, Cron group.

Basically the team operates under a commitment that they're going to write off '16 and '17 fully, get a top draft pick next two cycles, and run through guys like Marte, Guerra, Choi, Ortega, this year and next to try and get lucky with what we have, see if anyone turns into an everyday player (alot of those guys are still young enough we may get lucky) and clever waiver/minor league acquisitions.Which isn't impossible. 

I also expect the team to dole out some cash this offseason and next, regardless.
We're going to clear some payroll, and if we have a protected pick, use that to our benefit by trying to lock in another good FA. Someone like Reddick. You have guys like Michael Saunders, Jon Jay, Franklin Gutierrez, Alejandro De Aza, Rajai Davis, Steve Pearce, Colby Rasmus, Ian Desmond, Chris Coghlan also set for FA. Pluck one of them for a cheap deal. Trout plus two of those names wouldn't be a bad OF. If we suck, maybe one is dealt again much like this season's crop of vets on one-year deals.

Roll into '17 with a rotation of Shoe, Trop, Bauer, Skaggs, one of the Santiago/Lincecum/Chacin/Kendrick/vet FA scrap pile, and guys like Smith/McGowin/Alcantara. A pen full of question marks. Bandy/Perez at C, Cron/Marte/Choi at first, Gia/acquisition at 2nd, Simmons at SS, Marte/Cowart at 3B, Pujols at DH, plop Reddick in RF, Trout in CF, and then another merry go-round in LF until someone pans out. Maybe sign a guy like Jon Jay or Franklin Gutierrez.

That's not really any worse than what we've tried the past two years, but we'll get another good arm and a couple prospects out of it, and could compete if things break right. The real action will be happening in the minors and under the surface. The MLB club acquisitions will be a facade. We didn't really lower payroll much, but we didn't blow it up either, maybe making one major commitment. Arte gets to prop up Reddick as a proof of spending money and trying to compete, we don't lose any picks, we add a couple more prospects via smaller deals and Calhoun, we add at least one major young MLB player from Calhoun, we have a shot at competing, and also a shot at bombing for another season and dealing off more cheap vets and securing another higher draft position and protected pick.