Dipoto's Mariners

[ukyah]

28 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

It's comical that some here believe that Arte didn't let Dipoto do his job. 

 

i think it's pretty clear that arte didn't support dipoto in doing his job. the manager needs to answer to the gm, and that certainly isn't the case in anaheim. i don't see how that's debatable, even if one were to think that form of hierarchy non-toxic.

[Troll Daddy]

9 minutes ago, ukyah said:

 

i think it's pretty clear that arte didn't support dipoto in doing his job. the manager needs to answer to the gm, and that certainly isn't the case in anaheim. i don't see how that's debatable, even if one were to think that form of hierarchy non-toxic.

I don't see it that way. Dipoto clearly knew the managerial situation before he interviewed for the job. I don't recall Scioscia interfering with Dipoto doing his job building a team.

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

35 HRS

100 RBI'S

85 RUNS

I agree with some of the points you made but ...

You miss the point.

Yes he put up decent numbers in Anaheim but he was always a one dimensional hitter, who was pitched as such in Anaheim. Seattle is an even tougher park for him to play in. Every park in the AL East is a nice fit for his skill set.

In the two seasons after leaving the Angels, leading up to his trade to Baltimore, he combined for 36 homeruns, 99 runs scored and 106 rbis. The main point I was making is that he does not have the defensive skills to be successful in the capacity that Arizona and Seattle wanted him to be, in the parks he was going to play in, and that is reflected in his negative war over the last two seasons. Moving to the AL East, he doesn't have to worry so much about defending competently, and pitchers legitimately have to be concerned with his power. It is no surprise that he is flourishing in that environment in a way that he had no chance of in Seattle, and was struggling towards in Anaheim.

[Ender]

3 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

 

The players producing on the M's were not acquired by Jedi, yet ironically Pujols was. What point are you trying to make? 

 

Yes. Leonys Martin hasn't produced. Same with Dae Ho Lee. Same with Nate Karns. Same with Nick Vincent. Same with Steve Cishek. Joaquin Benoit was on the DL a bit but is back and will likely perform (K'ed the 3 batters he faced last night).

Adam Lind SHOULD produce given his track record, but you are correct he really hasn't. Nori Aoki also hasn't lived up to his ability yet (and maybe won't).

And Wade Miley has been poop. I agree. 

Mariner success is not driven only by Cano, Cruz and Seager .... but keep telling yourself Dipoto did nothing but trade Trumbo for nothing.

He also ACQUIRED Leonys for nothing (Tom Wilhelmsen, James Jones and Patrick Kivlehan (who is back with the Mariners)). He acquired Nick Vincent for a PTBNL. Signed Dae-Ho Lee for Peanuts. 

This is an effort in futility though as I expect nothing from an Angels fan forum speaking on topic about the Mariners and their former GM.

[Angel Dog and Beer]

Hey Chuck, can you set up a roundtable discussion with Arte, Scioscia and Dipoto to discuss what exactly went wrong last year and the years leading up to Dipoto's resignation?  I think Glen and Adam is capable enough to moderate it, and you can sell PPV rights.  Actually, maybe hold it inside the squared circle, and AO can be the commentator.  I'd love to stop making assumptions about what happened, who said what, who had power, and who didn't do what they were supposed to do, and learn the real truths.

[Blarg]

4 hours ago, calscuf said:

Why do people capitalize the "P"?  It's not like we randomly capitalize other letters in the middle of words.

I'm not sure, it is grammatically incorrect even for Italian. If it were to be capitalized the Di would be separate so it would read Di Poto which translated means to prune. The name is probably an Ellis Island contraction, the mistake of adding the capital letter is idiot island.

[AngelsLakersFan]

10 minutes ago, Angel Dog and Beer said:

Hey Chuck, can you set up a roundtable discussion with Arte, Scioscia and Dipoto to discuss what exactly went wrong last year and the years leading up to Dipoto's resignation?  I think Glen and Adam is capable enough to moderate it, and you can sell PPV rights.  Actually, maybe hold it inside the squared circle, and AO can be the commentator.  I'd love to stop making assumptions about what happened, who said what, who had power, and who didn't do what they were supposed to do, and learn the real truths.

Maybe we can raise enough money to sign a mediocre left fielder?

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

I'm not sure, it is grammatically incorrect even for Italian. If it were to be capitalized the Di would be separate so it would read Di Poto which translated means to prune. The name is probably an Ellis Island contraction, the mistake of adding the capital letter is idiot island.

Maybe his ancestors worked in a garden?

Is the capital "P" how he personally spells the name?

[Blarg]

No.

And you are probably right that back in the family past are field workers or gardeners.

 

 

[nando714]

Martin will come back down to earth. 

He also has been your only argument it seems like 

[Erick McClendon]

36 minutes ago, Ender said:

Yes. Leonys Martin hasn't produced. Same with Dae Ho Lee. Same with Nate Karns. Same with Nick Vincent. Same with Steve Cishek. Joaquin Benoit was on the DL a bit but is back and will likely perform (K'ed the 3 batters he faced last night).

Adam Lind SHOULD produce given his track record, but you are correct he really hasn't. Nori Aoki also hasn't lived up to his ability yet (and maybe won't).

And Wade Miley has been poop. I agree. 

Mariner success is not driven only by Cano, Cruz and Seager .... but keep telling yourself Dipoto did nothing but trade Trumbo for nothing.

He also ACQUIRED Leonys for nothing (Tom Wilhelmsen, James Jones and Patrick Kivlehan (who is back with the Mariners)). He acquired Nick Vincent for a PTBNL. Signed Dae-Ho Lee for Peanuts. 

This is an effort in futility though as I expect nothing from an Angels fan forum speaking on topic about the Mariners and their former GM.

Pump the breaks on Leonys Martin. Seattle fans act like 5 weeks guarantees that this guy is a 35 HR .800 ops guy. Yes he is a good defender but that bat will regress hard. Also Seattle has hit so well that the crap pitching is getting covered up. Not everybody on that teams lineup will have career years

[Blarg]

In 38 games he has more home runs than he did any season playing out of the Texas launching pad. I would not be surprised if he is popped for steroids,  you don't go from a. 680 OPS in Texas to an. 800+ OPS in Seattle.

[ELEVEN]

F'n Ep Pler.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pu Bes

Edited June 3, 2016 by ELEVEN
cover up

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Ender said:

Yes. Leonys Martin hasn't produced. Same with Dae Ho Lee. Same with Nate Karns. Same with Nick Vincent. Same with Steve Cishek. Joaquin Benoit was on the DL a bit but is back and will likely perform (K'ed the 3 batters he faced last night).

Adam Lind SHOULD produce given his track record, but you are correct he really hasn't. Nori Aoki also hasn't lived up to his ability yet (and maybe won't).

And Wade Miley has been poop. I agree. 

Mariner success is not driven only by Cano, Cruz and Seager .... but keep telling yourself Dipoto did nothing but trade Trumbo for nothing.

He also ACQUIRED Leonys for nothing (Tom Wilhelmsen, James Jones and Patrick Kivlehan (who is back with the Mariners)). He acquired Nick Vincent for a PTBNL. Signed Dae-Ho Lee for Peanuts. 

This is an effort in futility though as I expect nothing from an Angels fan forum speaking on topic about the Mariners and their former GM.

Cishek has been awesome, fantastic pick -up.

All the other players you have stated may have shown some flashes but slooooooow it down.

To suggest this team is not build on Cano, Seager, Cruz, Hernandez, etc is just denial. That's not a knock on Jedi. He just doesn't deserve credit for assembling it.

Why didn't you mention Chris Iannetta? 

 

 

 

[Ender]

57 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Maybe we can raise enough money to sign a mediocre left fielder?

You guys already let him go.

Baseball's second best hitter this year .... Matt Joyce.

[Ender]

9 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Cishek has been awesome, fantastic pick -up.

All the other players you have stated may have shown some flashes but slooooooow it down.

To suggest this team is not build on Cano, Seager, Cruz, Hernandez, etc is just denial. That's not a knock on Jedi. He just doesn't deserve credit for assembling it.

Why didn't you mention Chris Iannetta? 

 

 

 

Iannetta wasn't mentioned because he's sucked ... yet still has better numbers than what we've gotten out of that position in previous years. Funny and quite sad.

Felix has also sucked ... so I don't think he really contributes to this years record. Sparkling ERA aside his peripherals flat out are mediocre.

 

If the Angels came back from a 10 run deficit against the Braves and tied for 1st place in the division in June, I can imagine people on this forum would also be going nuts.

[Troll Daddy]

3 hours ago, California Cajun said:

I give props to Eppler from what I've seen so far, but don't blame Dipoto for quitting if he was not allowed to implement his program.  The GM should outrank the manager.  Judge Dipoto on how he does in Seattle under his terms. If Eppler is successful it probably means he's flexible and can adapt to unique situations.

I follow the team closely ... still confused as to what progam he wasn't  allowed to implement. Please elaborate...

[Oz27]

It's no great shock that Trumbo had little offseason value. He got $9 million through the arb process coming off a year in which he was barely above replacement level. He served very little use for the Mariners because, as ALF points out, him playing the OF in that park was a recipe for disaster and his offense had not made up for that in recent years. Even now, he's only on track for a WAR around 3.5 if he keeps this up ... and his track record suggests he won't. They probably should have got a bit more for him and it wasn't his finest move but some people here are acting like they traded Babe Ruth for a bag of balls.

[Troll Daddy]

11 minutes ago, Oz27 said:

It's no great shock that Trumbo had little offseason value. He got $9 million through the arb process coming off a year in which he was barely above replacement level. He served very little use for the Mariners because, as ALF points out, him playing the OF in that park was a recipe for disaster and his offense had not made up for that in recent years. Even now, he's only on track for a WAR around 3.5 if he keeps this up ... and his track record suggests he won't. They probably should have got a bit more for him and it wasn't his finest move but some people here are acting like they traded Babe Ruth for a bag of balls.

You're right about Seattle ...  wasn't a great fit but his HR power really wasn't a issue in their ballpark.

but ... if 17 HR's 42 RBIs 31 run's in two months only has you on track for 3.5 WAR then you throw that assessment out the window.

[Oz27]

16 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

You're right about Seattle ...  wasn't a great fit but his HR power really wasn't a issue in their ballpark.

but ... if 17 HR's 42 RBIs 31 run's in two months only has you on track for 3.5 WAR then you throw that assessment out the window.

It's a reflection of the fact that he can't get on base, run or play defense.

The biggest reason Trumbo's numbers are better is more of his fly balls are turning into home runs. Last year 14.5 per cent of his fly balls were home runs, this year it is 27 per cent. That number is  a product of the ballparks he is playing in, but it probably isn't sustainable anyway. I'd be surprised if he is above 3 WAR at the end of the year.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Ender said:

Yes. Leonys Martin hasn't produced. Same with Dae Ho Lee. Same with Nate Karns. Same with Nick Vincent. Same with Steve Cishek. Joaquin Benoit was on the DL a bit but is back and will likely perform (K'ed the 3 batters he faced last night).

Adam Lind SHOULD produce given his track record, but you are correct he really hasn't. Nori Aoki also hasn't lived up to his ability yet (and maybe won't).

And Wade Miley has been poop. I agree. 

Mariner success is not driven only by Cano, Cruz and Seager .... but keep telling yourself Dipoto did nothing but trade Trumbo for nothing.

You're right, there is hyperbole in the statement you are responding to -- but it's not totally baseless...   

Fun with facts...    

The Mariner bats rank 6th in MLB in fWAR at 9.6 -- the top 5 Mariner position players?  Cano 2.6, Seager 2.1, Martin, 1.7, Cruz  1.6 and then Seth Smith at 0.9.     The other JD bats come in at Lee 0.9, Iannetta 0.4, Aoki 0.0, Lind -0.2, Clevenger -0.3, Sardinas -0.4.    O'Malley is another JD addition at -0.3 but it's worth noting he was a minor league FA.  Lee has proven to be a great signing so far and Servais deserves credit for using him really effectively -- it remains to be seen how teams will adjust and whether his performance will carry over but 0.9 fWAR in 85+ PAs is impressive -- it's also ripe for volatility as the sample gets bigger.   But when it's all said and done the three big names that were there before JD have combined for 6.3 fWAR...  The entirety of the JD position player additions (7 players) 1.8.  

Pitching is where JD's moves had a greater impact.  The M's rank 12th in fWAR pitching at 4.9...    The top 5?  Karns 1.0, Iwakuma 0.7, Felix, 0.6. Nuno 0.6 and Nick Vincent 0.5.   The rest of the JD additions come in at; Cisek 0.5, Miley 0.1, Benoit 0.0, and Peralta -0.2.   So, if we pretend Iwakuma wasn't in Seattle the previous year -- Kuma and the rest of the JD pitching additions have combined for 2.6 WAR.

All told -- JD's 14 additions have combined for 4.4 WAR...  Minus Iwakuma it's down to 3.7

6.3 > 3.7...     So, while it's true people are blinding themselves to the good JD has done, at least some of the information points to the reality that the the big three are in fact the primary reason for the Mariners success.   

Ultimately his success or failure in Seattle isn't going to change what he did or didn't do in Anaheim, it's pointless to hate on the guy.

 

[Erstad Grit]

2 hours ago, Ender said:

Iannetta wasn't mentioned because he's sucked ... yet still has better numbers than what we've gotten out of that position in previous years. Funny and quite sad.

Felix has also sucked ... so I don't think he really contributes to this years record. Sparkling ERA aside his peripherals flat out are mediocre.

 

If the Angels came back from a 10 run deficit against the Braves and tied for 1st place in the division in June, I can imagine people on this forum would also be going nuts.

Maybe I would be on THIS forum,  but I would not be going nuts on marinerswin.com 

[Inside Pitch]

 

BTW...  if the M's success results in Arte learning a lesson and staying out of Epplers way -- thanks Jerry!

[Ender]

3 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

Maybe I would be on THIS forum,  but I would not be going nuts on marinerswin.com 

It's a thread .... about the Mariners .... 

It isn't like I'm saying this in your Gameday threads.

I honestly do not care what Angel fans think of the Mariners .... as I am sure you do not care what I think about the Angels ... which is why I really don't say anything about the Angels. 

We're supposed to hate each other. It's fine.

I'm 33. I don't have the will to fight on the internet anymore.

[Erstad Grit]

33 minutes ago, Ender said:

It's a thread .... about the Mariners .... 

It isn't like I'm saying this in your Gameday threads.

I honestly do not care what Angel fans think of the Mariners .... as I am sure you do not care what I think about the Angels ... which is why I really don't say anything about the Angels. 

We're supposed to hate each other. It's fine.

I'm 33. I don't have the will to fight on the internet anymore.

Geeze man you just aren't hearing what I'm saying. I like the Ms. I think their team is built to win. I don't hate other fans. Giving Dipoto credit for their roster is simply silly. We'll see in a few years if he can build a team.