The Official Los Angeles Angels 2017 Minor League Statlines & Prospects thread

[Second Base]

7 hours ago, ettin said:

Respectfully to many of you discussing the promotion of prospects with no Major League experience you are adding a lot of risk to total team performance by doing so. Sure they may succeed but they may also dramatically fail and sink our season if we have some combination of Puello, Hermosillo, Cowart, Fletcher, Barria, Long, Diaz, Hofacket, et al.

This is why teams at the deadline almost always trade for veteran players because they know that they are more likely to get a steady, reliable performance out of them rather than the wide variance with prospects.

I could see Eppler utilizing one or two prospects in 2018  but we have to add more reliability and raise our floor.

See it's that line of thinking that results in playing Vernon Wells and Bobby Abreu over Mike Trout. They can say a flu resulted in Trout missing the first month of the season, but let's be real, a flu doesn't knock you out of action for 30 days, even if you lost 10 pounds from it.

The Angels wanted the more guaranteed veterans in the lineup and the result of that was Trout hitting .400 for the first month in AAA while Abreu and Wells hit below the Mendoza line and the Angels narrowly missing out on the playoffs. 

If the Angels followed that logic, they don't have K-Rod and they lose in 2002. 

It's insanity to possibly justify signing another Nolasco just because the options in AAA/AA (Meyer, Bridwell, Barria, Long, Canning) aren't 30 yet and haven't the experience. 

 

[ettin]

14 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

See it's that line of thinking that results in playing Vernon Wells and Bobby Abreu over Mike Trout. They can say a flu resulted in Trout missing the first month of the season, but let's be real, a flu doesn't knock you out of action for 30 days, even if you lost 10 pounds from it.

The Angels wanted the more guaranteed veterans in the lineup and the result of that was Trout hitting .400 for the first month in AAA while Abreu and Wells hit below the Mendoza line and the Angels narrowly missing out on the playoffs. 

If the Angels followed that logic, they don't have K-Rod and they lose in 2002. 

It's insanity to possibly justify signing another Nolasco just because the options in AAA/AA (Meyer, Bridwell, Barria, Long, Canning) aren't 30 yet and haven't the experience. 

 

First of all I don't quite think you read exactly what I said. Also you cherry picked two names out of hundreds, if not thousands, of examples to try and make your (invalid) point. I will simply point to ANY trade deadline in the history of baseball where you can show me any contending team heading to the playoffs that chooses to buy prospects to help them get to the World Series (guess what it doesn't happen Scotty). How many teams, serious about winning in any given season, start the year off with multiple prospects around the field? Very few. You place entirely too much faith in any particular prospects ability to make a smooth transition to the Majors.

I am not saying that prospects cannot contribute. I even said that Eppler may use a couple of prospects that he feels are ready. However we are not going to have a team littered with first-time-to-the-Major's prospects running around the field in 2018, particularly when you consider how bare our farm system is in AA/AAA which, as you well know, is the real proving grounds before reaching the Majors.

Also I never said they have to 30 years old. They just have to have some proven, big league experience even if that is only 2-3 years. That could be a lot of different players.

In regards to Trout that could have easily been Valley Fever or something quite serious. I don't think you or I have looked at his medicals so I'm not sure where you can make that assumption you made above. All we know was that he was sick and it hit him hard.

Edited July 18, 2017 by ettin

[Second Base]

30 minutes ago, ettin said:

First of all I don't quite think you read exactly what I said. Also you cherry picked two names out of hundreds, if not thousands, of examples to try and make your (invalid) point. I will simply point to ANY trade deadline in the history of baseball where you can show me any contending team heading to the playoffs that chooses to buy prospects to help them get to the World Series (guess what it doesn't happen Scotty). How many teams, serious about winning in any given season, start the year off with multiple prospects around the field? Very few. You place entirely too much faith in any particular prospects ability to make a smooth transition to the Majors.

I am not saying that prospects cannot contribute. I even said that Eppler may use a couple of prospects that he feels are ready. However we are not going to have a team littered with first-time-to-the-Major's prospects running around the field in 2018, particularly when you consider how bare our farm system is in AA/AAA which, as you well know, is the real proving grounds before reaching the Majors.

Also I never said they have to 30 years old. They just have to have some proven, big league experience even if that is only 2-3 years. That could be a lot of different players.

In regards to Trout that could have easily been Valley Fever or something quite serious. I don't think you or I have looked at his medicals so I'm not sure where you can make that assumption you made above. All we know was that he was sick and it hit him hard.

I don't really like your tone.  Very defensive. 

So tell me this, are you in favor of signing a back of the rotation starter next year that is an "inning eater", and thus relegate Tropeano, Meyer, Bridewell, Long, and Barria to AAA or even AA?  Second, do you feel that inning eater gives the Angels a better advantage over Tropeano, Meyer, Bridewell, Long and Barria.  Third, if you answer yes to both #'s 1 and 2, are you insane?

[ettin]

1 minute ago, Scotty@AW said:

I don't really like your tone.  Very defensive. 

So tell me this, are you in favor of signing a back of the rotation starter next year that is an "inning eater", and thus relegate Tropeano, Meyer, Bridewell, Long, and Barria to AAA or even AA?  Second, do you feel that inning eater gives the Angels a better advantage over Tropeano, Meyer, Bridewell, Long and Barria.  Third, if you answer yes to both #'s 1 and 2, are you insane?

I didn't like your tone "See its that line of thinking...."

Not defensive either because you pulled weird examples out of the air and put words in my mouth so I corrected you.

Where in God's name did I ever say sign an innings eater? I have done nothing but advocate that the Angels need a frontline or at the minimum middle rotation guy. We already have a bunch of innings eaters.

Stop changing the argument around and putting words in my mouth please.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, ettin said:

I didn't like your tone "See its that line of thinking...."

Not defensive either because you pulled weird examples out of the air and put words in my mouth so I corrected you.

Where in God's name did I ever say sign an innings eater? I have done nothing but advocate that the Angels need a frontline or at the minimum middle rotation guy. We already have a bunch of innings eaters.

Stop changing the argument around and putting words in my mouth please.

1. That is the line of thinking you're using, which is use vets over prospects. 

2. If you're only referring to acquiring players in a deadline deal, then you're right. But your initial paragraph, you made no mention of the deadline, and that's what I took exception to, because it's extremely flawed. Reliability is only preferable if we are relying on a history of good performance.

3. I mistook your argument to say you wanted more reliability, and thus something without upside. For that, I am sorry. If you're saying a front line starter, I guess it'd really depend on the price. We're just now reaching a point where we have a farm system to sustain success should we achieve it atvthe major league level. If perhaps it were a #2-3 pitcher with a bloated contract, then I could see it.

Verlander comes to mind if we had any confidence in him still being the pitcher he's been in the past. The velo is still there, but who knows.

[tdawg87]

Jones is killing it right now. 3 more hits last night with two doubles. Hitting .325 his last 10 games. I see him finishing the year at IE.

Ward went 1-2 with 2 more walks. He now has a .351 OBP for the year. 

Adell went 0-3 though so season over.

[totdprods]

Hey @ettin and @Scotty@AW, you guys are two of my favorite posters - I pushed for signing an innings-eater a couple posts ago in this thread, so I wonder if perhaps that was what Scotty was referring to and it got mixed into y'all's exchange. 

I'm sure that our '18 AAA depth of Bridwell, Scribner, Long, Barria, Canning, Smith, etc. could probably perform at a level of a vet innings-eater type - we're seeing that type of arm do exactly that for the team this year, at a level even better than those vet innings-eater types like Chavez, Nolasco. But how often do you see a team with playoff aspirations go into a season with that much inexperience counted on, or that many arms coming off injury penciled into the rotation? It's not necessarily that I want them to sign a pitcher like that, it's more that I just expect them to.

This season is offering us a perfect glimpse at this exact situation, because who really expected our entire rotation to miss the season again? I think ideally, Skaggs, Shoemaker and Richards would have been healthy, and as the year went on, Nate Smith and others would have slowly pushed Nolasco onto the trading block or Chavez to the pen. That just didn't happen. 

I don't think it's far-fetched to think out of Richards, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Heaney, Tropeano, Ramirez, Bridwell, Meyer, Smith, Barria, Long, Canning that two of those guys wind up hurt. Two wind up ineffective. Two wind up being relegated to AAA, or simply not being ready. That's typical for just about any MLB team's SP depth throughout a year. A vet gives us some stability. Doesn't need to be someone expensive or flashy.

I'd rather be the team that's trading away a Jhoulys Chacin-type in May, rather than be the team that's trading for a Chacin-type in May because everyone's breaking down again, and the team has the payroll space to buy that peace of mind. Keep stacking the deck.  Cron, Marte, and Cowart seemed like perfectly capable 1B/3B depth going into 2017, yet none of had made an impact on the team, and when Valbuena was brought in, I liked how it bumped everyone down a rung and increased our depth. Obviously this hasn't worked out as every one of those guys has struggled or not had a chance, but I still liked the depth it gave us.

[totdprods]

Monday, July 17th:
Salt Lake (51-44) won 7 to 1 over Reno (55-40)
Shane Robinson: 2-4, hitting .341/.400/.439/.839 on the year. I'm a Shane Robinson fan, what can I say.
David Fletcher (Third AAA game, playing 2B): 2-5, 2B, 2 R, 2 RBI, hitting .462 in AAA so far. He's adjusting fine!
Kaleb Cowart (playing 1B): 3-4, 2 2B, 2 RBI
Jefry Marte: 2-5, HR (7), 2 RBI
Cesar Puello: 2-5, RBI, he's now hitting an .500 (22 for 44) in his last 10 games.
Troy Scribner: 5.2 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 6 K Remember him? He's now 10-3 with a 4.39 ERA in 92.1 AAA innings. Not bad at all. 
Jason Gurka: 2.1 IP, H, BB, 2 K - since joining Angels, 18 IP, 2.50 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, .254 BAA, 6 BB to 19 K
Brooks Pounders: 1 IP, H, K - mostly relief in AAA this year, a solid line: 36.2 IP, 3.68 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, .232 BAA, 9 BB to 35 K

Mobile (42-51) lost 2 to 3 to Tennessee (51-43)
Michael Hermosillo: 1-4, HR (4) in 9th inning, 2 RBI
Matt Thaiss: 1-4
Jose Rojas: 0-3, 25 game hitting streak snapped. Longest in Angels org since '09

Inland Empire (45-50) lost 2 to 3 to Modesto (54-41)
Brennon Lund: 2-4, BB - still red-hot, .343/.395/.464/.859 on the year in A+ through 140 ABs
Taylor Ward: 1-2, 2 BB - his A+ OBP is .100 higher than his BA - .243/.351/.396/.748 so the plate discipline is encouraging. Maybe some Iannetta comps one day?
Kyle Survance, Jr: 2-4, 2 R, 2B, SB (16) - sort of a forgotten prospect. Missed '16, returned this year with an awful start. Hitting .300 last ten games. 
Keith Grieshaber: 2-4, he's hit at every level, but was always a little older than the competition. This is probably his first true test level. Only 5 games at A+ so far, but he's slashing .318/.318/.545/.864
Jose Rodriguez: 6 IP, 5 H, 3 ER, BB, 2 K

Burlington (42-52) won 9 to 2 over Lake County (38-55)
Jahmai Jones: 3-5, 2 2B, R - slashing .283/.349/.475/.823 in 24 second half games. 
Sam McDonnell: 1-3, 2B, 3 RBI
Richard Fecteau: 4-4, 2 RBI - quietly slashing a solid .305/.368/.463/.831 across 24 games (AZL, Orem, and Burlington)
Artemis Kadkhodaian: 3-5, 2B, HR (2), 2 RBI - undrafted FA, little old for Burlington but slashing .340/.347/.574/.921 in his pro career over 12 games
John Schuknecht: 1-4, HR (8) - slashing a rough .193/.286/.361 this year in Burlington, but has a hefty 16 HR in 380 career minor league ABs. 
Derek Jenkins: 2-4, R - slashing .333/.395/.368/.763 with 12 BB to 17 K and 12 SB in 34 G

Someone to watch...
Andrew Vinson: 5 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 4 K
Vinson was a pretty solid collegiate closer/relief prospect, but the Angels converted him to SP this season in Burlington. The results have been mixed, but with the org having a lot of success with Ramirez and Bridwell recently, I'm fairly intrigued. His last five starts: 25 IP, 26 H, 11 ER, 2 HR, only 4 walks to 23 Ks, and a 3.96 ERA, 1.20 WHIP If he keeps it up, he starts to slot into the Castillo, Gatto, Jewell wave of SPs.

Orem (20-7) won 3 to 2 over Billings (14-14)
Leonardo Rivas: 1-4, BB, SB (4)
Jonah Todd: 2-4
Jeyson Sanchez: 2-4, HR (2), 2 RBI
Daniel Procopio: 1 IP, BB, 2 K - classic relief prospect - 6 IP, 1 H, 8 BB, 10 K - unhittable, lot's of Ks, lots of walks

How about...
Elvin Rodriguez: 5 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 3 K - 19 years old, 6'3", 160 pounds
Since coming stateside, in 13 games (11 starts): 57.2 IP, 2.18 ERA, 0.92 WHIP, .201 BAA, 6.7 H/9, 0.5 HR/9, 1.6 BB/9, 7.8 K/9

AZL Angels (11-8) lost 3 to 5 to the AZL Dodgers (11-7)
Jacob Pearson: 1-4, K
Jordon Adell: 0-3, 2 K
Nonie Williams: 1-4, R, K
Tyler Skaggs: 3.2 IP, 2 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 6 K
Cole Duensing: 3.1 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 2 K

DSL Angels (16-20) lost 0 to 6 to the DSL Mets1 (26-11)
They were one-hit, and nothing noteworthy on pitching side.
 

[Angel Oracle]

That should read 0 BBs for Skaggs, retired first 11 batters, then gave up 2 hits and left the game with max pitch count reached.

[Angel Oracle]

All minor league teams (excluding the DSL team) are collectively at 1 game under .500.

Orem is dominating, and no one team is having a horrible season.

Winning isn't everything in the minors, although a nice culture to build.   But it does seem that the talent level has increased significantly.

[Angelsjunky]

Gotta disagree, @totdprods. An innings-eater is also someone with no future upside who blocks players with future upside, plus costs more more. If the Angels sign a starter, he should be someone who is above the base level of the dozen or so pitchers they already have, in other words at least a #2-3 type.

If the Angels didn't have the depth they have, I'd agree. But it isn't like they have six or seven guys who can start major league games next year - they've got a dozen. That's a lot to work with. Chances are they get 162 starts out of that group.

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

Hey @ettin and @Scotty@AW, you guys are two of my favorite posters - I pushed for signing an innings-eater a couple posts ago in this thread, so I wonder if perhaps that was what Scotty was referring to and it got mixed into y'all's exchange. 

I'm sure that our '18 AAA depth of Bridwell, Scribner, Long, Barria, Canning, Smith, etc. could probably perform at a level of a vet innings-eater type - we're seeing that type of arm do exactly that for the team this year, at a level even better than those vet innings-eater types like Chavez, Nolasco. But how often do you see a team with playoff aspirations go into a season with that much inexperience counted on, or that many arms coming off injury penciled into the rotation? It's not necessarily that I want them to sign a pitcher like that, it's more that I just expect them to.

This season is offering us a perfect glimpse at this exact situation, because who really expected our entire rotation to miss the season again? I think ideally, Skaggs, Shoemaker and Richards would have been healthy, and as the year went on, Nate Smith and others would have slowly pushed Nolasco onto the trading block or Chavez to the pen. That just didn't happen. 

I don't think it's far-fetched to think out of Richards, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Heaney, Tropeano, Ramirez, Bridwell, Meyer, Smith, Barria, Long, Canning that two of those guys wind up hurt. Two wind up ineffective. Two wind up being relegated to AAA, or simply not being ready. That's typical for just about any MLB team's SP depth throughout a year. A vet gives us some stability. Doesn't need to be someone expensive or flashy.

I'd rather be the team that's trading away a Jhoulys Chacin-type in May, rather than be the team that's trading for a Chacin-type in May because everyone's breaking down again, and the team has the payroll space to buy that peace of mind. Keep stacking the deck.  Cron, Marte, and Cowart seemed like perfectly capable 1B/3B depth going into 2017, yet none of had made an impact on the team, and when Valbuena was brought in, I liked how it bumped everyone down a rung and increased our depth. Obviously this hasn't worked out as every one of those guys has struggled or not had a chance, but I still liked the depth it gave us.

Even if the nightmare continues and we have two starters injured, two ineffective and two that can't make it out if the minors, that still leaves us with six starters. 

So even if the worst happens, we're still good. Having Barria, Long and Canning in AAA/AA is quite the luxury. Something we haven't had in a long time.

And look at it this way. If for some reason our 12-deep rotation is decimated and can't cut it, we could still acquire at the deadline. 

No reason to pursue SP this offseason unless it's front of the rotation and it doesn't cost prospects.

We have the rotation, and if Eppler has a repeat or can re-up guys like Petit, Hernandez, Norris etc., then we'll have the pitching we need to win. We have the farm to help sustain that success at the big league level, and now all we need is an offense.

Losing Escobar is going to suck big time because he's completely underrated here. No one else we acquire will hit over .300 like him. But if we replace him, Maybin and Espinosa with JD Martinez, Dee Gordon and Kaleb Cowart, we'll probably end up slightly ahead of where we are right now, which is generally middle of the pack. 

[Angel Oracle]

At least sign a #3 caliber starter (sub 4.00 ERA and sub 1.25 WHIP?).

Escobar is 35 in 2018.  He isn't going to be hitting .300 much longer anyway, and will ultimately need replacing anyway.

[Second Base]

31 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

At least sign a #3 caliber starter (sub 4.00 ERA and sub 1.25 WHIP?).

Escobar is 35 in 2018.  He isn't going to be hitting .300 much longer anyway, and will ultimately need replacing anyway.

Tropeano fits that description perfectly. Keep in mind he isn't some injury prone pitcher, he'd been healthy just about his entire career before TJS. 

[ettin]

12 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

1. That is the line of thinking you're using, which is use vets over prospects. 

2. If you're only referring to acquiring players in a deadline deal, then you're right. But your initial paragraph, you made no mention of the deadline, and that's what I took exception to, because it's extremely flawed. Reliability is only preferable if we are relying on a history of good performance.

3. I mistook your argument to say you wanted more reliability, and thus something without upside. For that, I am sorry. If you're saying a front line starter, I guess it'd really depend on the price. We're just now reaching a point where we have a farm system to sustain success should we achieve it atvthe major league level. If perhaps it were a #2-3 pitcher with a bloated contract, then I could see it.

Verlander comes to mind if we had any confidence in him still being the pitcher he's been in the past. The velo is still there, but who knows.

Hi Scotty,

My primary point, whether it is at the trade deadline, in the off-season, or in fact at any time, is that GM's are looking for strong, consistent production out of their players, particularly the consistent part. Prospects, by their very nature, are generally not as consistent or reliable as a player that has at least 2 full years in the Majors (and here that can be anyone from about 23-40 years old as long as they have steady production).

This is why, at the deadline and in the off-season, most GM's and teams are looking to add a more known, steady quantity through trades and free agency to help raise the floor of the team. Prospects can wildly inflate that floor through strong play but they can also wildly diminish that floor through inexperience, errors, and ineffectiveness. Thus the risk they add to a teams projection is potentially wildly high, wildly low, or somewhere in between (and that can be a fairly large gap between ceiling and floor).

Because their is such a wild gap most GM's do not stock their teams full of prospects because you are much more likely to get a wide variance in performance (up or down). That inconsistency of play is more difficult to project which makes planning for the 2nd half (in the case of the trade deadline) or for a full season (in the off-season) more difficult.

That is why top prospects are more valuable of course. Their ceilings and floors are usually higher than the general population of Minor League players and because their floors are higher a GM can more reliably add them into the mix when they feel they are ready (and their years of control align with the GM's overall plan). I know you follow all of our prospects religiously Scotty and believe in their potential (I do too) but yes I am advocating using experienced players (which means 2 or more full years in the League) over prospects on a case-by-case basis because you are more likely to get consistent production out of them. As I said in my original post Eppler will almost assuredly start the 2nd half or the 2018 season with a couple of prospects on the 25-man roster but the more prospects you add in lieu of higher floor MLB players, the more risk you add to the team's ability to win effectively and consistently over the remainder of the season or over a full year of play.

I think part of our cross-up here had to do with the fact that I am talking about generalities and you were focusing on specific players. Mine is a top-level discussion and yours was a detailed one.

[Angel Oracle]

19 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

Tropeano fits that description perfectly. Keep in mind he isn't some injury prone pitcher, he'd been healthy just about his entire career before TJS. 

He though will likely only be able to pitch about 150-160 innings in 2018, after missing part of 2016 and all of this season.    By 2019, if all goes well, then he can pitch the 190+ innings that a #3 generally pitches.   2018 is still wide open as far as to how many innings the returning from injury starters can pitch.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

He though will likely only be able to pitch about 150-160 innings in 2018, after missing part of 2016 and all of this season.    By 2019, if all goes well, then he can pitch the 190+ innings that a #3 generally pitches.   2018 is still wide open as far as to how many innings the returning from injury starters can pitch.

Alright so he gives us 160 innings and we need 30 more....Bridwell, Barria, Long and Canning could handle those 30.

[Docwaukee]

The difference between weaver, linececum, chacin etc from last year and guys like Chavez and Nolasco from this year is getting a top 10 pick in the draft vs. having an inkling of getting a 2nd wild card spot that is likely not going to happen.  

Innings eaters are important when you are trying to bridge a gap.  You have a solid top of the rotation but lack depth.  Or you have a horrible rotation and don't want to completely crush your pen.  Or you have been decimated by injury.  

The important thing to ask is what you are buying.  Buying crappy innings is massively overrated in my opinion.  The notion that Chavez and Nolasco are 'keeping us in games' just doesn't make sense to me.  If you don't have meaningful players at the top of your rotation, you are going nowhere.  Richards, Skaggs, Heaney, and perhaps Trop and Shoe are meaningful players who provide talent capable of being in the 1,2,3 range.  Maybe not a true ace potential, but way more so that Nolasco and Chavez.  

So we have to see where our injured are before making decisions.  But I would much rather give innings to parker bridwell, JC Ramirez and Nick Tropeano than someone with an upper 4's or low 5's era with literally no upside.  

Don't buy me mediocrity.  I'd rather have Jordon Adell than Matt Thaiss.  

[totdprods]

5 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Gotta disagree, @totdprods. An innings-eater is also someone with no future upside who blocks players with future upside, plus costs more more. If the Angels sign a starter, he should be someone who is above the base level of the dozen or so pitchers they already have, in other words at least a #2-3 type.

Okay, so can agree that the Angels could improve pitching...
Ideally, I think Skaggs, Richards, Heaney, or Shoemaker, possibly Meyer, ascend into more of a #2-#3 type. I'd rather pin hopes on one of them becoming that so we don't have to overpay for a Darvish, Arrieta, Cueto, etc.

These guys aren't necessarily my targets, but...
Lance Lynn: 3.37 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, 114 ERA+, 3.56 FIP
Alex Cobb: 3.47 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 112 ERA+, 4.16 FIP
Matt Shoemaker: 3.87 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 101 ERA+, 3.96 FIP
Tyler Skaggs: 4.22 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 91 ERA+, 4.08 FIP (as an Angel)
Jason Vargas: 4.09 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 97 ERA+, 4.29 FIP
Jeremy Hellickson: 3.95 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 100 ERA+, 4.42 WHIP
JC Ramirez: 4.06 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, 103 ERA+, 4.58 FIP (as an Angel, both RP and SP)
Chris Tillman: 4.28 ERA, 1.35 WHIP, 97 ERA+, 4.53 FIP
Tyler Chatwood: 3.36 ERA, 1.34 WHIP (away from Coors)

And so on. No, most aren't a whole lot better than what we already have, but most aren't far from a Matt Shoemaker. We'd really benefit from another Matt Shoemaker in this rotation. That contract will be far less risky and costly than a top FA arm. Additionally, I don't think it's realistic that we solve all of our offensive needs via FA, nor do we rely too heavily on prospects. One of our SPs should be able to fetch us a decent bat either this offseason or early next year, and I think a deal involving one of them is inevitable. An innings-eater is a safe, modest investment to act as insurance for those scenarios. We're also losing three (maybe four if you count whatever Street does this year) big arms from the pen, and Bedrosian isn't the image of durability yet. Durability eases some pressure off our pen next year, and gives us flexibility in whomever we acquire to fill those departing.

5 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

If the Angels didn't have the depth they have, I'd agree. But it isn't like they have six or seven guys who can start major league games next year - they've got a dozen. That's a lot to work with. Chances are they get 162 starts out of that group.

I thought the same thing this last offseason!
Richards, Shoemaker, Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano, Ramirez, Meyer, Bridwell, Barria, Long, Wright, Canning, and Nate Smith have a combined 125 starts in the last two seasons. Shoemaker, whose status is still very murky, is responsible for 33% of those. There's a chance we may not even get to 162 total starts from that group even with the rest of the season ahead of us.

If 2017 ends with Richards, Shoe, Heaney, and Skaggs all on the mound and no one else needing TJ, I'll be all for going with what is in house, but as of right now I think we should be erring on the side of caution. 

We can go back on forth on this - I don't disagree with you or Scotty, I just see this type of acquisition in a different context for building the team in the offseason. I see a market flush with this type of SP, not as much for LF, 3B, or 2B, so I'd try and take advantage of that surplus with FA $$$, gun for an ace from within, and dealing from that pitching depth for a better bat than what's available this offseason at some point when we know we can afford to trade from that depth. I know it's a prospect thread so I'll try and hold off after this...

[Angelsjunky]

Haha, good luck with that, @totdprods. But maybe this should be a separate thread?

 

[totdprods]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

Haha, good luck with that, @totdprods. But maybe this should be a separate thread?

I'm just happy we have SP depth like this in the minor leagues again for this to even be a discussion. I just want to see our Top Five on the mound again before the year is out. 
I'm sure there will be a million more threads for this before the month is out....

[Second Base]

I think something that kind of affects the way we consider our depth is where it's located. If all these guys were in Rookie Ball orvA Ball, they aren't even on the depth chart. They don't even garner consideration until AA. Just the fact that Barria and Long are doing what they're doing this year has to give you pause. It doesn't mean the Angels are relying on them, but it at least brings about the discussion of if they can. Then adding Jesus Castillo and Canning to AA next year and suddenly we've got some hard questions to answer.

Guys like Richards and Skaggs can anchor a rotation, but come next year, if they aren't healthy, I can't see the Angels relying on their return after that. We have too many talented pitchers that are ready for their turn.

There's a good chance we open 2018 with Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Shoemaker and Meyer as the starting five. There's also a good chance we open 2019 with a few of those prospects.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

5 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

I think something that kind of affects the way we consider our depth is where it's located. If all these guys were in Rookie Ball orvA Ball, they aren't even on the depth chart. They don't even garner consideration until AA. Just the fact that Barria and Long are doing what they're doing this year has to give you pause. It doesn't mean the Angels are relying on them, but it at least brings about the discussion of if they can. Then adding Jesus Castillo and Canning to AA next year and suddenly we've got some hard questions to answer.

Guys like Richards and Skaggs can anchor a rotation, but come next year, if they aren't healthy, I can't see the Angels relying on their return after that. We have too many talented pitchers that are ready for their turn.

There's a good chance we open 2018 with Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Shoemaker and Meyer as the starting five. There's also a good chance we open 2019 with a few of those prospects.

For Long and Barria, I see them like this: If the Angels get an injury to their staff super early in the season, I think they may look to the trade market. After mid-may, Barria and Long are going to be battling for those starts. It wouldn't surprise me if Long was looked at as a bullpen option next year (as a backup plan, not from the get-go).  

 

[John Smith]

Mobile BayBears activated LHP Kevin Grendell from the 7-day disabled list.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=l_trn&lid=111&sid=t417

[John Smith]

2017 6th round Draft Choice

OF Jonah Todd assigned to Burlington Bees from Orem Owlz.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=l_trn&lid=118&sid=t420