Guys like Weaver

[Lou E Ville]

who lose so much velocity but still know how to pitch....why don't they learn how to throw a knuckleball? Is it a pride thing? An 80 mph fastball would work if you throw a 50 mph knuckler, which are supposed to be more effective the slower they are.

 

I mean if it works, you add three to six years to the end of your career, and all the money that comes with it. If it doesn't, you weren't going to get anyone out the way you were accustomed to.

[nate]

You don't just learn how to throw a knuckleball or there would be a lot more dudes doing it. It is a very difficult pitch to master.

[eaterfan]

I don't get why they don't just learn to hit home runs. Babe Ruth learned and it worked well for him. He was really able to extend his career because of it.

[Quinlanforthewin]

who lose so much velocity but still know how to pitch....why don't they learn how to throw a knuckleball? Is it a pride thing? An 80 mph fastball would work if you throw a 50 mph knuckler, which are supposed to be more effective the slower they are.

 

I mean if it works, you add three to six years to the end of your career, and all the money that comes with it. If it doesn't, you weren't going to get anyone out the way you were accustomed to.

 

Same reason Deandre Jordan won't try underhand FTs...scared of looking stupid

[Billy_Ball]

who lose so much velocity but still know how to pitch....why don't they learn how to throw a knuckleball? Is it a pride thing? An 80 mph fastball would work if you throw a 50 mph knuckler, which are supposed to be more effective the slower they are.

 

I mean if it works, you add three to six years to the end of your career, and all the money that comes with it. If it doesn't, you weren't going to get anyone out the way you were accustomed to.

 

Not the knuckler.  He should follow the path of Frank Tanana.

[Hot Damn!]

Great post, would read again.

[Ohtaniland]

who lose so much velocity but still know how to pitch....why don't they learn how to throw a knuckleball? Is it a pride thing? An 80 mph fastball would work if you throw a 50 mph knuckler, which are supposed to be more effective the slower they are.

I mean if it works, you add three to six years to the end of your career, and all the money that comes with it. If it doesn't, you weren't going to get anyone out the way you were accustomed to.

It's a pride thing.

[ukyah]

it's not a pride thing. not everyone can throw a knuckler. there's a reason why every pitcher doesn't have the same repertoire. it's a feel thing, there are pitches that pitchers just never get down. just think of how many times you've heard a pitcher talk about developing a 2nd, 3rd or 4th pitch that he can trust. trust is a synonym for control.

[Lou E Ville]

You and I can't just learn how to throw a knuckleball, but professional pitchers can. It's a difficult pitch to master, but it's not rocket science. It's the same distance to the catcher's mitt. If he tries it and he can't get it down, what harm was done? It's not like it's going to hurt his arm.

 

I covered a AAA team here in Louisville and the longtime catcher learned how to throw it and he would pitch the ninth whenever the team's bullpen was depleted. And he never embarrassed himself or the team.  

 

I'm not suggesting Madison Baumgardner try it. I'm suggesting a guy who has lost 15 mph off his fastball give it a shot. Will he learn it in two weeks? No. But if you have all winter what harm can it do to try?     

[Ohtaniland]

it's not a pride thing. not everyone can throw a knuckler. there's a reason why every pitcher doesn't have the same repertoire. it's a feel thing, there are pitches that pitchers just never get down. just think of how many times you've heard a pitcher talk about developing a 2nd, 3rd or 4th pitch that he can trust. trust is a synonym for control.

I was being sarcastic about the pride thing. But here's the reality, we all love Weaver for what he has given us but he is now an expensive roster spot. It's a business so if the team decides to carry him and keep him in the rotation for who he is then winning is not the priority. We have accept that he will probably get shelled this season it's ok because he's Jered Weaver.

Edited March 11, 2016 by CALZONE

[Coachbulldog]

Perfect thread to mention my favorite baseball book, Ball Four by Jim Bouton. The backstory to the book is a power pitcher, who can no longer throw his fastball, trying to reinvent himself as a knuckleball pitcher. 

[Blarg]

It's a pride thing.

Yeah, like Canadians refusing to understand baseball since they grew up on hockey.

[ksangel]

Why can't guys like Weaver who lose so much velocity know it's time to hang it up.

 

Love Weaver and what he's meant to the Angels...but it's time to give Tropeano a chance rather than sit at AAA again.

[Blarg]

It's Spring Training, Ks. It is the time players try and sort out what they have or don't have. None of them on the roster have the give up mentality so it really has to get to either they are too injured to perform, to worn out or just no longer have the desire. Weaver still has the desire but the other two components haven't been proven yet, at least not to him or the coaching staff.

I'm sure Jered is not looking forward to the last time Scioscia takes the ball from him. I kind of respect him for trying to delay that moment.

[Ohtaniland]

Why can't guys like Weaver who lose so much velocity know it's time to hang it up.

Love Weaver and what he's meant to the Angels...but it's time to give Tropeano a chance rather than sit at AAA again.

You can't expect him to walk away from $18M.

[mulwin444]

Maybe he's tried already...maybe he was hoping an offseason of rest would revitalize his arm...maybe as a power pitcher most of his career the thought never occurred to him.  Who knows?  However, its too late for this season to learn it so expect more 78 MPH fastballs. 

[stormngt]

Guys can we have the debate "Weaver should retire" a month from now? Doesn't Weaver deserve at least Spring training before the fans turn on him?

I am not suggesting keeping him in the rotation with a 78 mph fastball. But that decision doesn't even have to be discussed until April. Until then let's see what happens

[laagamer]

Every single player on that field can throw a knuckleball. You could pull any MLB player and they'll tell you they ****ed around with it on a mound a some point.

 

 

But doing it effectively takes years to master. You don't just start fooling MLB hitters with a new grip at 65 MPH. Even then, it isn't effective for most.

 

Who's the last really effective career knuckleballer? Hoyt Wilhelm? 

[Mark68]

You don't just learn how to throw a knuckleball or there would be a lot more dudes doing it. It is a very difficult pitch to master.

Even those who have mastered it (Dickey) haven't really "mastered" it.

[Mark68]

Every single player on that field can throw a knuckleball. You could pull any MLB player and they'll tell you they ****ed around with it on a mound a some point.

 

 

But doing it effectively takes years to master. You don't just start fooling MLB hitters with a new grip at 65 MPH. Even then, it isn't effective for most.

 

Who's the last really effective career knuckleballer? Hoyt Wilhelm? 

The Niekros, Charlie Hough, Wakefield carved out a pretty decent career, RA Dickey...

[Lou E Ville]

The Niekros, Charlie Hough, Wakefield carved out a pretty decent career, RA Dickey...

 

Yep. Think one of the Niekros won 300 games and the other won 200. Hough used to kill us with the Rangers.

[laagamer]

The Niekros, Charlie Hough, Wakefield carved out a pretty decent career, RA Dickey...

 

I'd take Wakefield off that list though. Never got everyone's fascination with him. Dude was garbage. 

[eaterfan]

I'd take Wakefield off that list though. Never got everyone's fascination with him. Dude was garbage. 

 

WTF are you talking about? The guy had a 105 ERA+ for his career. He pitched as a knuckleballer in Boston for 16 seasons. That's far from a garbage career. He was never a top pitcher but being basically slightly above league average for a 16 year career is far from garbage. He also didn't start pitching for Boston until his age 28 season. So most of his career should have been what would be considered the downside for most pitchers. 

[zenmaster]

He should learn the rainbow ball instead of the knuckler. 

[laagamer]

WTF are you talking about? The guy had a 105 ERA+ for his career. He pitched as a knuckleballer in Boston for 16 seasons. That's far from a garbage career. He was never a top pitcher but being basically slightly above league average for a 16 year career is far from garbage. He also didn't start pitching for Boston until his age 28 season. So most of his career should have been what would be considered the downside for most pitchers.

Found the lurking Boston fan