Trying to be competitive versus actually trying to win...

[Blarg]

When did Cespedes, Upton, Gordon, etc, etc sign?

[Stradling]

Albert's obp in 2015 was .307 which is pathetic and probably a direct result of that stupid home run tote board.

Claude, this is garbage. If you really think Albert hits home runs because of a home run tracker at the ball park you are incredibly dumb.

[marcosantinia12]

I'm guessing this is in reponse to my last thread among others. And I can't agree with you more. I personally would prefer we go aggressively after Upton and then sign Kendrick (might as well add him on if we are going to break right trough the luxury tax).

However, I think that we may miss out on Upton to another team like the Orioles who clearly have the money ready to spend (instead of Davis) and also have the need. I think it will come down to them just being more aggressive and us  trying to be more low-key about it which will come to bite us in the ***.

In the meantime of our Upton pursue, Gordon and Cespedes will go to other teams in which case we fall into the next tier. I think Span is a perfect fit for this team. His defense should be very solid in LF and he provides the prototypical lead-off hitter this team needs (Escobar is more of a 2 hitter IMO). He has a hig OBP, BA, and I think his speed will still be pretty good, albeit no longer extraordinary, even after his injury. Oh, and he's Left handed.

The only part I disagree with you on is that Span isn't an impact player. I guess I do agree with that statement, but I believe he can be a player to make a huge difference and potentially put us over the top. On paper, Span isn't an impact talent, but when you bat him with Escobar in front of Trout, Pujols, and Calhoun he can make a huge difference in their production. Of course, I would much rather Upton.

I know that you are not in favor of giving up a pick for a player like Span or Kendrick. I'll give you this - if we are going to sign one of them, then maybe not. The team will still have a hole in one of LF or 2B. But if we can get both, we'd be much more improved and competitive, despite not seeming like it on paper. I could live without the pick if so.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The only part I disagree with you on is that Span isn't an impact player. I guess I do agree with that statement, but I believe he can be a player to make a huge difference and potentially put us over the top. On paper, Span isn't an impact talent, but when you bat him with Escobar in front of Trout, Pujols, and Calhoun he can make a huge difference in their production.

 

The people who say that Denard Span isn't an impact player forget that our left fielder for a good part of last season was Matt Joyce. He was the direct opposite of an impact player. In comparison, almost any competent outfielder would be a marked upgrade.

[Troll Daddy]

This all seems like a lot of wasted space ... we don't even know what the team will look like opening day. I guess it gives you guys something to chat about .

Here's a clue ... WE'RE TRYING TO WIN

[Stradling]

This all seems like a lot of wasted space ... we don't even know what the team will look like opening day. I guess it gives you guys something to chat about .

Here's a clue ... WE'RE TRYING TO WIN

Thanks bro, see you in April when there is something to talk about.

[Ohtaniland]

Claude, this is garbage. If you really think Albert hits home runs because of a home run tracker at the ball park you are incredibly dumb.

Strad, Albert Pujols is 3 time League MVP,

10 time All Star,

2 time GG winner,

ROY

2 time World Champion.

What else is there to do at this point but rack up his stats. He has some significant players he's chasing like Mays and Ruth. He would never admit it publicly but it's important to him.

[Second Base]

For #3 agreed, but you have to have tradeable assets to build a farm short term, we just blew what we had out the door. The only other option is to trade from the ML club, and we dont exactly have much there that isnt partially tainted either short of Trout. The problem with all of this though is that it means sacrificing 2-3 year minimum of being also rans in a time when we have the best player on the planet... i dont recall any other franchise doing that, ever.

If #2 is the real constraint, then we are doomed for the foreseeable future.

This means #1 isnt realistically viable if the other 2 are of higher priority

I guess it comes down to what year they want to win, casue it sure isnt 2016.

If we are going into that mode then trading Trout is the most obvious move, nothing else makes any sense at all as we literally have nothing else that will fix anything in the next 2-3 seasons.

Dont get me wrong, it isnt what i want, but right now we have to choose... either pay and win now, or rebuild, there is no middle ground that will achieve either goal within our division.

I don't think rebuilding the farm is a short term goal as much as it is long term. I mean if the Angels have an EXCELLENT draft for the next 3 years, and sign one high profile international prospect per year, their farm will be sufficiently rebuilt.

It really doesn't matter how baseball prospectus, baseball america or anyone else ranks the Angels farm system because for those of us that have been paying attention, those guys are wrong, all the time. If they were right then Kole Calhoun, Garrett Richards, C.J. Cron and more wouldn't be anything of value.

What matters is that the Angels keep getting value from their system, as they have for years now. It's hard to see that happening this next year from this group. Maybe Kubitza and Cowart help, or even Hinshaw but I'm just not seeing any impact this next year and that's what makes the system bare.

But 3 years, it can be plush again.

[floplag]

I'm guessing this is in reponse to my last thread among others. And I can't agree with you more. I personally would prefer we go aggressively after Upton and then sign Kendrick (might as well add him on if we are going to break right trough the luxury tax).

However, I think that we may miss out on Upton to another team like the Orioles who clearly have the money ready to spend (instead of Davis) and also have the need. I think it will come down to them just being more aggressive and us  trying to be more low-key about it which will come to bite us in the ***.

In the meantime of our Upton pursue, Gordon and Cespedes will go to other teams in which case we fall into the next tier. I think Span is a perfect fit for this team. His defense should be very solid in LF and he provides the prototypical lead-off hitter this team needs (Escobar is more of a 2 hitter IMO). He has a hig OBP, BA, and I think his speed will still be pretty good, albeit no longer extraordinary, even after his injury. Oh, and he's Left handed.

The only part I disagree with you on is that Span isn't an impact player. I guess I do agree with that statement, but I believe he can be a player to make a huge difference and potentially put us over the top. On paper, Span isn't an impact talent, but when you bat him with Escobar in front of Trout, Pujols, and Calhoun he can make a huge difference in their production. Of course, I would much rather Upton.

I know that you are not in favor of giving up a pick for a player like Span or Kendrick. I'll give you this - if we are going to sign one of them, then maybe not. The team will still have a hole in one of LF or 2B. But if we can get both, we'd be much more improved and competitive, despite not seeming like it on paper. I could live without the pick if so.

partially, but not only yours.

Dont get me wrong i dont dislike Span, he would be a good idea if we werent so lacking in other areas.   I just dont see him as the guy that puts us over.

Is he better than what we had out there last year... heck i probably would be, but that doenst make us  good enough to get out of third in my opinion. 

maybe im wrong, i hope i am, i just dont think hes the kind of guy you give up a draft pick and blow the luxury tax on, hes a good player, just not that good. 

Now IF we signed Davis to DH and then got Span... ok, but that aint happening either

 

[floplag]

This all seems like a lot of wasted space ... we don't even know what the team will look like opening day. I guess it gives you guys something to chat about .

Here's a clue ... WE'RE TRYING TO WIN

 

Really... based on what?  what has this team done or said since the Hamilton fiasco to suggest that?

[mtangelsfan]

Strad, Albert Pujols is 3 time League MVP,

10 time All Star,

2 time GG winner,

ROY

2 time World Champion.

What else is there to do at this point but rack up his stats. He has some significant players he's chasing like Mays and Ruth. He would never admit it publicly but it's important to him.

Pujols is to Calzone as Vladdy was to munkey.

[Ohtaniland]

Really... based on what? what has this team done or said since the Hamilton fiasco to suggest that?

Why begin with the since the Hamilton timeline. Let's rewind to the day we hired Jerry Dipoto. We have changed 96% of the roster since then and we still have zero playoff wins. The team is completely rebuilt.

2011 Angels lineup

Mathis C

Trumbo 1B

Kendrick 2B

Aybar SS

Callaspo 3B

Wells LF

Bourjos CF

Hunter RF

Abreu DH

Morales DL

Weaver SP

Santana SP

Kazmir SP

Haren SP

Pinero SP

K-Rod Closer

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Pujols is to Calzone as Vladdy was to munkey.

 

And he wants him to become Hal Morris.

[Stradling]

Strad, Albert Pujols is 3 time League MVP,

10 time All Star,

2 time GG winner,

ROY

2 time World Champion.

What else is there to do at this point but rack up his stats. He has some significant players he's chasing like Mays and Ruth. He would never admit it publicly but it's important to him.

You're ridiculous. What else does he have to play for? How bout to compete? Once again these opinions say a ton more about you than Albert.

[Inside Pitch]

Angels are trying to win. They are not going over the luxury tax. What's so hard to understand?

 

People just follow names.. when they signed Pujols it was how many WS are they going to win -- when they don't it's last place here we come.   Chicks dig the long ball.

 

Based on Steamer, the Angels as they stand now project to 83 wins -- same as Texas, one game less than Seattle, and 5 behind Houston.   Last year these same projections had the Angels as an 85 win team, again tied with Texas and two games behind everyone's darlings the Mariners.  BBP, Zips -- they have yet to be released, but it will be interesting to see how the team grades out in those systems, and there is still the possibility however slight that this team could still add someone for LF...

 

Regardless... on "paper" they are currently competitive within the division -- time will tell whether that proves to be true or not.

 

That may not be enough for some -- and that's fine.  A punchers chance is better than no chance at all.

 

[Blarg]

Sorry fan boys but there will not be a Kendrick reunion.

[Troll Daddy]

Sorry fan boys but there will not be a Kendrick reunion.

Do you have magic balls ?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Do you have magic balls ?

 

No, I can't say it...

[mtangelsfan]

Do you have magic balls ?

Victor's mom.....?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but don't you have to win to be competitive? This seems like extreme hair splitting to me.

[floplag]

Why begin with the since the Hamilton timeline. Let's rewind to the day we hired Jerry Dipoto. We have changed 96% of the roster since then and we still have zero playoff wins. The team is completely rebuilt.

2011 Angels lineup

Mathis C

Trumbo 1B

Kendrick 2B

Aybar SS

Callaspo 3B

Wells LF

Bourjos CF

Hunter RF

Abreu DH

Morales DL

Weaver SP

Santana SP

Kazmir SP

Haren SP

Pinero SP

K-Rod Closer

 

 

pretty sure you knew i was talking about since the recent blow up trade thing in the last year... but hey dont let that cloud the bullshit 

[Ohtaniland]

You're ridiculous. What else does he have to play for? How bout to compete? Once again these opinions say a ton more about you than Albert.

Signing Albert Pujols hasn't done much for the team on the field.

Angels 2008 - 2011 without Pujols = 363 wins

Angels 2012 - 2015 with Pujols = 350 wins

[Stradling]

Signing Albert Pujols hasn't done much for the team on the field.

Angels 2008 - 2011 without Pujols = 363 wins

Angels 2012 - 2015 with Pujols = 350 wins

Yes ignore ALL other factors, it's all because Albert likes to hit home runs because the Angels have a home run score board at the stadium.

[Docwaukee]

be competitive 

stay under the luxury tax 

rebuild the farm 

 

=

 

Unicorn.  

 

Realistically, Our farm system cannot be rebuilt without a rebuild.  Unless of course we have like 3 or 4 miracle 2009 drafts in a row.  

 

So it's either stay under the tax OR be competitive.  So far we are opting for the former.   Sort of.  The confusion comes from the fact that I am not sure if the front office thinks that the team, as currently constructed, is good enough to compete for the division.  If they do, well I have nothing for them.  If they don't, then I don't know what they are doing.  Frankly, either way I don't know what they are doing.  

 

I agree with the OP.  Go big or go.  

 

BTW, Albert doesn't try to hit homers because of a tracker.  He truly believes the team is better if he hits hrs.  Plus, I think he likes to hit them.  I've been through my Albert spiel before.  It's not rocket science what he is trying to do.  It's not working and I wish he would realize it, but it is what it is.

 

The identity of this team is a hot mess, but they've got some time to get it together for the next couple of years.  We shall see.  

[tdawg87]

Took just 14 posts for someone to bring up 2002, as if it means absolutely anything today.

 

Angels fans are ****ing ridiculous.