Trying to be competitive versus actually trying to win...

[tdawg87]

Scotty, what team wouldn't play either of those guys? The Giants continued to throw Zito out there every 5th day despite his problems. The Yankees will keep throwing out Sabathia. Upton Sr. will get 500 AB's for whomever he plays for, so long as he's healthy.

 

Money is a big part of it, of course. But in some cases loyalty is a part of it as well. I know it seems kind of ridiculous, but these guys are human beings. They aren't just robots you replace with a newer, better model every time they start to falter. You can do this with younger guys, and cheaper options, but not veterans you've invested millions of dollars into.

[Ohtaniland]

The sad part is, you're right. Same goes for Weaver. The Angels in particular seem to set more emphasis on veteran performances of an increasingly distant past than other teams. Part of it is Scioscia and his veteran-favoring tendencies, which aren't always wrong. The other is likely the money. If they're paying a player exorbitant amounts of money, they intend to play that play regardless.

I mean if you take out the distant past and the money, what are Albert and Jered? We have an old, all-or-nothing hitter with a problem reaching base and seriously debilitating injury issues. We also have a fly ball specialist that throws an 84 mph fastball. Albert would be a starting DH, with the caveat that you have a very good option in AAA or on the bench because things could turn comically bad quickly. As for Weaver, he wouldn't be in the majors.

And it's not that I want to be right. It's just sad to watch MLB veterans like Albert and Jered playing way past their prime while trying to fill vital positions at such a high cost. It sucks watching Weaver getting rocked and Albert swinging for the fences while hitting a ground ball to third and soft trotting to first. Weaver gave us his everything he had but now the tank is empty with one year left. We can deal with that. Albert was pretty much done before he got here and still has 6 years left on his deal. He has to be stuck at the hip with Trout. That's going to be tough to take. You can't hide the big elephant in the room.

[Stradling]

Some incredibly stupid opinions here. The lack of loyalty that Scotty shows for Weaver is bullshit, but whatever. As for Claude and Albert, he is past his prime, no doubt about it, but he hit 40 home runs last year. It isn't like he is Hamilton or Abreu his last year here. Also once again in Alberts case, who replaces him right now on this team? CJ Cron? Ok, but he isn't as good defensively. So then who replaces Cron as DH? Anyone ready for the Effren Navarro era to start? Bitch about things that matter. If we don't have replacements who are better then why bother getting upset about them playing "well past thier prime"?

[Ohtaniland]

Some incredibly stupid opinions here. The lack of loyalty that Scotty shows for Weaver is bullshit, but whatever. As for Claude and Albert, he is past his prime, no doubt about it, but he hit 40 home runs last year. It isn't like he is Hamilton or Abreu his last year here. Also once again in Alberts case, who replaces him right now on this team? CJ Cron? Ok, but he isn't as good defensively. So then who replaces Cron as DH? Anyone ready for the Effren Navarro era to start? Bitch about things that matter. If we don't have replacements who are better then why bother getting upset about them playing "well past thier prime"?

40 hrs is cool.

I remember when 39 year old Hank Aaron hit .301 / 40hrs / 96rbi's / 1.045ops

[Troll Daddy]

Some incredibly stupid opinions here. The lack of loyalty that Scotty shows for Weaver is bullshit, but whatever. As for Claude and Albert, he is past his prime, no doubt about it, but he hit 40 home runs last year. It isn't like he is Hamilton or Abreu his last year here. Also once again in Alberts case, who replaces him right now on this team? CJ Cron? Ok, but he isn't as good defensively. So then who replaces Cron as DH? Anyone ready for the Effren Navarro era to start? Bitch about things that matter. If we don't have replacements who are better then why bother getting upset about them playing "well past thier prime"?

Wow Impressive!

[Stradling]

40 hrs is cool.

I remember when 39 year old Hank Aaron hit .301 / 40hrs / 96rbi's / 1.045ops

The point is that he is past his prime, but the way you talk about him it is like he shouldn't even be in the league. He is overpaid, go find a different vilian.

[Angel Oracle]

Does anyone have confidence that the plantar fascia surgery will at least somewhat re-invigorate Pujols?

Or is his crouched stance for years one that puts too much strain on his body, and that's why he's declining much more rapidly than some other superstars like Aaron, Mays, Big Poopy, etc.?    Yet another thing Arte "the not so baseball wise" Moreno didn't take into account before giving him 10 years through age 41?

 

Yes, he hit 40 HRs in 2015.   BUT, also with only a mid/upper .700s OPS!

Edited December 28, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Ohtaniland]

The point is that he is past his prime, but the way you talk about him it is like he shouldn't even be in the league. He is overpaid, go find a different vilian.

If you're good with it for another six seasons and he's the guy you're comfortable with in the middle of the lineup then please don't try to bring up why Arte won't spend another $20M. Getting another high dollar player is only an attempt to conceal the real problem.

[Ohtaniland]

Does anyone have confidence that the plantar fascia surgery will at least somewhat re-invigorate Pujols?

Or is his crouched stance for years one that puts too much strain on his body, and that's why he's declining much more rapidly than some other superstars like Aaron, Mays, Big Poopy, etc.? Yet another thing Arte "the not so baseball wise" Moreno didn't take into account before giving him 10 years through age 41?

Yes, he hit 40 HRs in 2015. BUT, also with only a mid/upper .700s OPS!

Heck even a 36 year old Jim Thome hit .275 / 36hrs / 96rbi's / .973ops

Yes a .973ops !!!!

[mtangelsfan]

If you're good with it for another six seasons and he's the guy you're comfortable with in the middle of the lineup then please don't try to bring up why Arte won't spend another $20M. Getting another high dollar player is only an attempt to conceal the real problem.

 

I don't think its possible for you to have a rational opinion about Pujols.  Your personal feelings just hinder you too much.

 

Who, in 2016, do you propose play first base if it isn't Albert?  

[Stradling]

If you're good with it for another six seasons and he's the guy you're comfortable with in the middle of the lineup then please don't try to bring up why Arte won't spend another $20M. Getting another high dollar player is only an attempt to conceal the real problem.

Nowhere did I say I was ok with him being in the middle of the line up for the next six years. And if you think Albert is THE problem then you're delusional. He's part of the problem but much smaller than you think. The real problem is no real direction, horrible farm system and total lack of involvement in foreign players.

[Ohtaniland]

Well MT & Strad, my opinion about Albert is based on what I've seen on the field. I remember the night Albert was struggling to run out a ground ball (not hustling) but had no problem chasing Aybar around the infield at full speed after his walk off hit. I guess he forgot he was hurt during all of the excitement.

[mtangelsfan]

What has that got to do with who you propose to play 1B in 2016?

[Ohtaniland]

What has that got to do with who you propose to play 1B in 2016?

Cron is a lifetime 1B so let's give him a full season and see how he does. It's not fair to him to bounce him around night to night from 1B to DH or to sit. Give him the job.

[Stradling]

Ok so then who DHs? Also Albert wins probably two games a year with his glove more than CJ.

[mtangelsfan]

Cron is a lifetime 1B so let's give him a full season and see how he does. It's not fair to him to bounce him around night to night from 1B to DH or to sit. Give him the job.

 

This is where you show your bias.

 

Pujols was better than Cron in almost every offensive category.  His WAR was 3.1 and Cron's was .2.

 

This doesn't even take into account Cron's defense which is offensive.

[tdawg87]

Yes but money

[mtangelsfan]

Yes but Albert was mean to me.

 

Fixed

[Stradling]

Reasons

[Ohtaniland]

This is where you show your bias.

Pujols was better than Cron in almost every offensive category. His WAR was 3.1 and Cron's was .2.

This doesn't even take into account Cron's defense which is offensive.

But Albert is always f'n hurt. I'm not a big fan watching a 60% Albert. I can't stand the year after year "we have to get Albert off his feet" bullshit. He refused to go on the DL because his ego wouldn't let him. He's been here four seasons and it's his knee, calf, hamstring and planters in both feet. He runs like Herman Munster and it looks like parts are flying off his body when he does run. He's done and he knows it.

[Docwaukee]

So let me get this straight.  

 

A player isn't as good as we'd like him to be and doesn't earn all of his money so we should get rid of him and replace him with someone worse whilst leaving a hole in the lineup elsewhere?

 

Albert Pujols is both disappointing and useful.  We have other fish to fry.  

[mtangelsfan]

"I'll ignore the stats and just go with my personal feelings"

[Ohtaniland]

So let me get this straight.

A player isn't as good as we'd like him to be and doesn't earn all of his money so we should get rid of him and replace him with someone worse whilst leaving a hole in the lineup elsewhere?

Albert Pujols is both disappointing and useful. We have other fish to fry.

My point is that if he's hurt don't play him. Let someone else with a third or fourth gear play.

[tdawg87]

But even when he's hurt he is by far the best option we have.

[Docwaukee]

My point is that if he's hurt don't play him. Let someone else with a third or fourth gear play.

a player has to have a first and second gear in order to have a third and fourth.